SR 18 - Viewers Q's Pt 2a - HD 1080p
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[00:00:00] Nick Brine: We could talk about the importance of microphones and things like that and your sound cards, but it's important that you have the right footwear on when you're making records. And obviously flip flops are the best item of footwear you can wear when making record.
[00:00:13] Jon Con: Hello, now welcome to another episode of the Session Week Call podcast.
[00:00:16] This episode is a continuation from week 17, so there's basically fewer questions that have come into us via email, via social media channels, basically anything that's been posed most from previous episodes, from any previous topics that we've talked about and recording questions in particular for the next few episodes, and we're about further deal.
[00:00:34] To jump straight back into this episode where we're following up with the next set of questions should be talking a little bit about mastering. I'm on the wrong screen, modern me masters. , this came from someone else who's also coming on the production workshop. So this one's coming from Morgan. He's messaging about mastering and when you're sending files for masters, what do you send?
[00:00:54] It was really about like, do I send stems? Do I send multiple elements for the mastering engineer?
[00:01:01] Nick Brine: I mean, I know STEM Masters is becoming more and more popular and it is a thing, but I'm still only asked for my stereo wafa in. The highest resolution that, you know, whatever it was recorded at, basically, you know, when we use Pete Mayer, we just send the stereo mixes to him.
[00:01:19] He's not there. He, there's times when he's said, oh, maybe you could just tweak this in the mix and then that means this'll do this in the master, blah, blah, blah. But no, I've not done it. And the times of master have gone to have own stuff. It's always just been my stereo files in web format. Yeah. At whatever sample rate it was record.
[00:01:37] I've not, not had any artists ask me to send stems from Astron. I've not had any master engineers ask for that yet.
[00:01:44] Jon Con: Just to expand on that, can you just explain where would stems
[00:01:47] Nick Brine: be useful, I guess, for a master engineer to be able to, you know, when if you, they get a mix and the vocals maybe just. Buried a little bit too much, and I know they can bring it out a certain amount, but obviously if they've got the stems there, they can easily just pop that up there.
[00:02:02] So it's easier for them to do that without it affecting other things within the mix then. And obviously if you're bringing up the center of your track to pop the vocal out a little bit or taking the sides out a bit further, it's gonna alter things that are in the middles kicks and snares and things like that.
[00:02:16] So it's great. But I guess. if, if you know you're mastering on a budget, then there's no time for the mastering engine to really do that, so that you should really get that right in your mix first. But I get it why mastering engines might, they can maybe do a, a. A better job because obviously they can just compress certain things.
[00:02:36] Elements of the mix. Yeah. If they want to there. But depends what your machine engineer is doing. If he's just there to, you know, is the mix good or might just bring it up to commercial level, is it, you know, does it need, does it need a lot of help If there's, if it's a terrible, terrible mix and having the stems would be great for them, but then you're kind of almost remixing the track a little bit.
[00:02:55] Yeah, that's, I think
[00:02:55] Jon Con: that's the thing about the stems is like, it's almost like passing off the job to someone else. A little bit. Yeah. The amount of time I imagine it would take to kind of. Balance and mix up the stems again, it's like all that's an extra amount of time and if you're paying by the hour, then that's gonna eat into, it's gonna take a little bit.
[00:03:11] It may take a
[00:03:12] Nick Brine: little bit longer because I can't imagine sending a mix off going, yeah, this mix sounds terrible, but we'll just send the stems to the machine engineer and he can sort it out. Let's just. You know, it's not, you gotta get the mix. You're happy with the mix. You know, they might be like, oh yeah, it maybe just needs a little bit more oomph, but the mix sounds great, so I don't wanna touch it.
[00:03:29] And that'll come from mastery or whatever. And yeah. I think know if you just, you just trying to make sure that, you know, there's no, that sonically it's all in the right place where it needs to be for that mix and that style really. So. .
[00:03:43] Jon Con: Well, I think, I think the other thing is like when we've done stems in the past, it's never really for mastering, is it?
[00:03:47] It's usually for tv. Yeah. Normally where we have to run everything off. So it's, it makes it much easier when, when we're in the box completely. Yeah. But you have to run everything off with a processing on so that, like, if a TV wants to have an instrumental mix and then bring the vocals in after a certain point, they can do that.
[00:04:05] Yeah. Remember we did this for John, for Fisher said didn. I think that's the last time I remember doing that was where we have to like have the mix set up back in the studio, have all the same settings, and then run off the drums. Run off the bass, run off the guitars, yeah. And the vocals. So then they could like, you know, the label wanted it for.
[00:04:23] Nick Brine: Yeah, for publishing, you think? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's things of masters where I wish I'd had the stems because there's not a lot I can do with it because it's just a bad mix, badly recorded, and you think if I had the stems, now I could do this and I could do that. And you know, there's like a echoy vocal going on where it's been badly recorded, things like that.
[00:04:40] But then those things are usually low budget sessions. and low budget mastering sessions. So you're doing, you're doing, you know, the tracks really cheap for people kind of doing three in this, in this time it would usually take to do one. And then you think, well, if I. . It's that kind of battle then, because yes, if I had the stems, I could get a much better master out of this, but then I'm going down the road of remixing the track for them, which you're not getting paid for.
[00:05:05] And if it's a 10 track album, you're doing it like that. That's a lot of work then to do that. Yeah, I might bring it up that I might bring it up that that is something I could do. And usually there just is no budget, cuz this is why it sounds like it does in the first place. So they're just like, no, just make it sound as good as you can with what you.
[00:05:19] Yeah,
[00:05:20] Jon Con: I think that was probably when we went back to the mixing question. What, well, what wouldn't you touch? I suppose like if something's really badly recorded, I think send it back to 'em. Say, look, I think you need to do a little bit more work on this. We need to get other players in. Yeah. That could
[00:05:32] Nick Brine: be another part.
[00:05:33] Yeah, new refuse mixes quite a lot. You know, just saying it's not quite ready to get it to where, you know, I want to be before I mix it. I want it to be before I mix it well. I mastered something for someone the other day and there was things I could have done and the things we could have changed in the mix, but there was no time or money or money to do that.
[00:05:49] And they'd send it to radio. And the radio liked the song, but they wouldn't play it because it wasn't a commercial volume. And also the vocal sounded really Eck Echoy. There was kind of a weird frequency knocking about, and so they refused to play it, so they'd just send it to me and they said, no, we can't afford to remix it.
[00:06:04] We, we can only afford to get it mastered. What can you do with it? I mastered it and then it got, and then it got played last weekend, I think. Possibly Steve Lema. I'm not sure. Anyway, someone played it Learn and, and it got got them some radio play over the weekend. Just from that little bit of work on, on remastering it.
[00:06:20] Yeah,
[00:06:20] Jon Con: I think that's the benefit, isn't it, by having a mastering engineer, having someone third party. I suppose it goes back to the last week's episode when we talking about mastering is having that third ear, like, you know, the, the extra set of ears are completely neutral. I haven't heard stuff they can kind of highlight.
[00:06:33] Well, there's a resonant frequency here, which we can cut out with. There's bits we can bring the volume up. So obviously. When people say mastering is a dark art, it's, well, yes it is. No one really knows what it is. It is all magic. Just like synths. No one knows how Synths. Yeah, but having the experience, understanding eq, understanding frequencies, you can go, okay, that's building up.
[00:06:54] If we take that out, that might open things
[00:06:56] Nick Brine: up. Mean knowing your room, knowing your're monitoring and stuff as well. Yeah, yeah. Knowing your room, knowing your're monitoring. You get it and you go. Right. Well, that shouldn't sound like that. That should sound like, oh, this is a question from Richard Jones, the legendary Richard
[00:07:08] Jon Con: Jones.
[00:07:08] Richard Jones, assuming you record drums first, what order would you choose to multitrack? The five piece guitar band. Five piece guitar band. Hmm. Does that mean they got keys?
[00:07:21] Nick Brine: No. Does he incorporated the keyboard? Mm dunno. I think he's just talking drums based two guitars and vocals, right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's go with that.
[00:07:31] Obviously you've joined the drums first, like he's assuming we've recorded the drums first there, so, which makes sense. I mean, I've done records, we've put the drums on last just because they've recorded a lot of stuff themselves and then they've wanted to come into the studio to add the drums. Doesn't always work, but, you know, we've done that a few times for me, drums.
[00:07:48] Yeah. Then get the bass. , then I would get the main guitars as I call rhythm guitars. And then I'd get the vocal on, probably get a guide vocal on very early at the beginning for something that Nov Gallagher was talking about on that interview. He was doing the other day actually. Oh, where he is digging you up, wasn't he?
[00:08:04] I think, yeah, he was talking about, about me and going into the studio with an engineer and yeah, he was talking about it on there. He was talking about getting, you know, some. Advice that, well they had given him was to get the vocal on early so you can kind of hear how the track should, should be and build everything around that.
[00:08:22] Yeah. But it's a nice interview with, with him which you could probably put up John for people to listen to. Yeah, it's good. So yeah, I would get the, if our vocal, a good vocal, even if it ends up being a guide, but a really good vocal down. But yeah, it would be space for rhythm guitars, then the main vocal, kind of finish it off any bits then.
[00:08:42] F Depends. Depends if sometimes people can only be there certain times of the day, whether they've got work or whether they're not there for the whole session. So if there's keys, they might go on then if he's there. If not, we'll work on backing vocals or percussion. Depends if the drum is doing the percussion or if I'm doing the percussion or someone else is doing the percussion.
[00:09:01] And sometimes it's just what you hear. You hear an idea, don't you? And you go, oh, let's throw that on now while it's fresh in, in our head, work on some synth parts or whatever. Generally I'm kind of build up a strong rhythm section, then get the vocals on and then add the kind of bits around it cuz you need that vocal to know where, so the you league guitarist doesn't just play all over the vocal.
[00:09:22] You need it sat there and yeah. And then last kind of bits, maybe. Effects, maybe atmospheric noises. The guitar solos little bits that come in and out, kind of noises. Production stuff. Really. Yeah,
[00:09:36] Jon Con: it's, yeah, it's a really interesting one. I seem to tend to go between doing guitars next then bass.
[00:09:44] by, it depends if there's a really good bass, am I just get to pull it down? Yeah. But then it, it also comes down as, I suppose like the pre-production element where you have this habit of sometimes bands can't quite hear themselves. They sometimes they're not all playing the same thing. I've been doing guitars before bass.
[00:10:01] Nick Brine: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that makes sense as well. I mean, it depends if he's gonna try and keep the bass on the drums, you know, if they're, if they're solid and they know and the parts are right. But yeah, I've had that where. The bass isn't, doesn't quite fit with what the guitars are doing, and the guitars are the main riff of the song in the hook of the song.
[00:10:16] And then cuz the bass player can't, can't like say, hasn't probably better hear himself in the rehearsal room.
[00:10:22] Jon Con: Yeah. Sometimes it might take a little bit more and then, It depend. Yeah, it, it's on band by band basis. Like sometimes you have a band where the bass and drums are tracked together and it sounds perfect.
[00:10:30] You know, it's like it's really tight. You don't, there's not much really needs to be done to it.
[00:10:34] Nick Brine: Yeah. But you might revisit the bass cuz they might be passing notes that all of a sudden could be put in once the guitars are on, you hear, well that could do with that. Or passing notes that need to be taken out because everyone's accent in that already on the guitars, on the drum, whatever, you know.
[00:10:46] So yeah, we can tweak it, swap it, you know, swap.
[00:10:49] Jon Con: It's usually, yeah, it's usually setting it up, isn't it? Setting the room up so you can kind of go. Each and each and everything. I, I do know the answers. Do you normally like go song by song? Do you do it in sections? So like with, do you spin the vocals if it's like more than one
[00:11:02] Nick Brine: song?
[00:11:03] Yeah. So I don't like to do all the drums, then all the bass, then all the guitars, then all of, I don't like that we kind of, sometimes in batches sometimes might, we might get all the drums done. It depends. It depends. Cause sometimes we are like only a rock field to do drums and bass and then we gotta go somewhere else.
[00:11:19] So yeah, you would do all the drums and bass, but I kind of like to build a song really in an ideal world, I like to build it and then move on, but, or do it in batches. I just don't like to leave all the vocals to the end cuz then, you know, a lot of pressure on a singer and if he gets ill towards the end of the session, then that's it.
[00:11:38] It's kind of, there's no vocals then, but yet to sing like a whole album's worth in the last couple of days. And then if that singer's doing all the backing vocal calls, that's a lot of. So I like to get some vocals done early on. Even if it's at the end of the night. Just get some takes as we, every night, just get some vocal takes on something so that you know, and then comp them as you go.
[00:11:58] You might not have the final vocal, but at least you've got a lot of it done. And just get the singer used to being in a room, used to singing, used to the headphones. And I just say to them, look, if you wanna sing at any point you go and sing. If you say No, I wanna sing now I'm ready, then you go and sing cuz we gotta get those vocals done when, when you're feeding.
[00:12:16] Yeah. You would, you, I mean,
[00:12:19] Jon Con: yeah. My, my biggest, my biggest worry all the time is like blowing a singer's voice out, I think. Yeah. And like, I think sometimes singers don't know, like, you know, singers who start out don't always know how good their voice is or don't know when to stop. So trying to spread it out
[00:12:33] Nick Brine: a little bit.
[00:12:34] Yeah, because they always make that comment, John. They always say, nah, just line the tracks up one after another 10 and I'll just sing all 10. Just sing
[00:12:40] Jon Con: it through. Yeah. I've got 10 songs and it takes 45
[00:12:42] Nick Brine: minutes to the whole album. Yeah, yeah. Just line 'em up on one session and I'll just sing 'em all one after another.
[00:12:46] Yeah. Right. ,
[00:12:48] Jon Con: that's not how the ion works. No, no. You can definitely do that, but I mean, How much would be usable. But then do you find like sometimes like the guide for whatever reason
[00:12:59] Nick Brine: just works? Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes.
[00:13:02] Jon Con: I, I've done it a couple times where the guide just, it's got something and maybe cuz it's a dynamic like, and it's just in the room.
[00:13:09] No headphones, they're more comfortable.
[00:13:10] Nick Brine: Yeah. Lead singer's disease hasn't had any time to kick in at that point, John. So ,
[00:13:16] Jon Con: you can't give away lead singer's disease. Nick Heaven will know now. . Yeah. Sorry, that brings us onto the next question,
[00:13:24] Nick Brine: right? ,
[00:13:25] Jon Con: dynamic versus condense and like vocals in a studio, would you prefer, which one would you prefer?
[00:13:30] Or does it depend on the song in a setting?
[00:13:33] Nick Brine: It does. But as you know, I like to record a dynamic and a condenser together, and I'll record both and I'll make the decisions later in the mix or whatever. One, one will sit better in the track. So we use like you use 67 along with the SM seven, or you just might, or a 58 or something, and you might just compress the shit out of the dynamic.
[00:13:55] Make it grainy. And then the other one might, you might leave. Other times you're just using one of the mics. But I'll have them both set up so that I can decide. And other times. It just works in the con. If you're in the control room, for instance, you might just use a 58 or a 57 doing vocals with a, a young artist called Lisa Mo the other week and her voice just suits her.
[00:14:16] 57. She sings in the control room. No, he no headphones. And the 57 for what she wants that. Graininess that the way it sounds with her voice, that's what she wants to, to use. And she responds to that mic better than putting an area in front of a really expensive microphone headphones. So it just works. Tim from Ash, we used to do a lot of his vocals in the control room with just a 57 and it just worked the response when he is right on the mic also without the headphones and less spill off the 57 in the control room.
[00:14:42] So yet the setting does make a difference. But generally I'll set up one of. And then sometimes I use just one, depending what's sitting in the track. Sometimes I use both. I
[00:14:52] Jon Con: thought you said I'll set up on a beach and thinking I like do
[00:14:55] Nick Brine: vocals on the beach. I vocal on a beach. Yeah. Good. Just what you need.
[00:14:58] 57 on the beach, John . But yeah, I mean f to set in and how people like for Scott Kim per talk about him and it's like in the control room, just with the 58, that's what he likes, you know. No headphones. The music cranked doesn't care about the spill. That's how he likes singing. So that then maybe overrides the tonal quality of the mic, you know, because you're getting the performance and he's comfortable and it works for him.
[00:15:24] So you, that's outweighing all the fact that it's not a, a val 47 or a U 67 or what C 800 G or whatever, you know, other times you really are finding the mic that suits. The singer, if you've got time, you might have a range of vocal mics. Might be a really good singer, really technical singer. You need to capture every aspect of that voice.
[00:15:46] And you might try, you might have a mic off between about five or six mics, and then you might go, no, that's the one. And then you're just using that one mic and you're use that for the whole album. That's the one that captures the voice. That's the one we need to use for the album. and that could be the 58 , you know, but yeah.
[00:16:02] But I, I'm I'm a fan of having both set up recording with both, and then I kind of choose as when I'm mixing them. Remember
[00:16:11] Jon Con: when we used to do, when I used to be on sessions? You can rockfield. I used to be like four and four SM seven, then the valve mic maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And most of the time it would normally be like the four and four SM seven, but every now and then, I remember it was like the solid.
[00:16:24] Yeah, you just get like a soft vocal or something where it's just like the solitude warm, sudden comes and the solitude does it. Yeah. Becomes the right mic for
[00:16:31] Nick Brine: that thing. Yeah. But as soon as it's kind of like a loud shouty vocal, it would just never work. And I, I always find that with the valve 47, actually, when we go to Martins, if it's kind of like a soft kind of upfront.
[00:16:41] it's nice, but as soon as it's kind of anything that's pushing it, it, it never used to win that Mike can even notice An amazing Mike. It never used to win, did it? So and let's find that with the solid tube as well. The four and four is just a great mic. It just, you know, you could use that all the time.
[00:16:58] And yeah, we use that with Danny from Thunder a lot and it just suits his voice. But it's a great all round mic. My favorite. For
[00:17:06] Jon Con: people who might be recording themselves a little bit. So say like we're recording at home, would you say would, would dynamic or condenser come into it a bit more then or like would we be more leaning one towards the other or would it be really just depending
[00:17:19] Nick Brine: on, so yeah, depends on the, it does depend on what room you're recording at home.
[00:17:24] Having a nice mic is great if you can record your vocals at home, cuz you can spend all that time on it and you know, you're not conscious about other people being around and all that kind of stuff, but, If you're on a budget and you're at home and your room's not particularly good, I don't think you can beat an SM seven B for the money.
[00:17:39] Yeah. If you buy that, you'll get good vocal sounds out of it. It's a great mic. Well, yeah.
[00:17:44] Jon Con: Well, I'm using you the, what's it? The MV seven now the USB one.
[00:17:48] Nick Brine: Yeah. I like it. Elvis.
[00:17:50] Jon Con: Brilliant. Well, I am Elvis. Elvis. Look at my hair. Velvet. Yeah. . Yeah, no, I, I think if you got a treated room, I think it's, I think sometimes obviously with like condensers, they could be a bit more sensitive to the room maybe.
[00:18:07] Yeah, yeah. And then like it is difficult
[00:18:09] Nick Brine: then. Yeah.
[00:18:10] Jon Con: So I think starting out, like that's why like, you know, when you start out recording and, cause we said when we talked about like recording vocals just now, like in the studio, 50 eights are great. They can work that. It's just like working. I remember like once I was doing work experience in Wells Club in Cardiff, they just said like, look, just work with what you've.
[00:18:26] And you learn more from doing that, and you will be like just trying to buy, you know, the next best thing or like, you know, keep upgrade, trying to spend, like upgrade everything.
[00:18:34] Nick Brine: Yeah. And someone goes out and buys a two grand mic and then they've still got their really shit preamp, you know, spend, spend half the money on the, on the, on the mic and get a better preamp as well.
[00:18:45] Just kidding. Yes. We want,
[00:18:45] Jon Con: I think this one might be, that is the last question.
[00:18:48] Nick Brine: Yeah. So yeah, thanks everyone for the the questions. Josh, Craig, Richard friend, guy Mitchell over in Spain here and who else did we have questions off Morgan? So cheers. Good set of questions.
[00:19:04] Jon Con: So thanks very much for watching.
[00:19:05] If you guys have any questions, Roki. Just offer us a message, leave us a comment on YouTube or send us an [email protected]. As we said, we've got a guide for bands who are starting out called the Bands Checklist, which is available at sessionrecall.com/bandchecklist. And we've already mentioned as well that we've got the production workshop happening in There's a couple of spaces left on that now as well, and that's available at sessionrecall.com/leedersvale. And. Thanks again for listening, for watching. And if you know anyone who'd be interested in, in to Think they might, this podcast would be useful for them. Please share please, like, and please like and subscribe and we'll see you all again next time.
[00:19:47] Nick Brine: One thing before we go, Jon. Yeah. One thing before we go you know, we talked about obviously Ban is sending us t-shirts and things like that. That's great. Roland have sent us some amazing equipment, some and Boss. We get sent stuff all the time. But if anyone wants to send me some flip flops, that would be brilliant cuz the dog is eating all my flip flops.
[00:20:07] And we can talk about the importance of microphones and things like that and your sound cards. But it's important that you have the right footwear on when you're making records. And obviously flip flops are the best. Item of footwear you can wear. We're making records. Yeah, they do keep you grounded.
[00:20:21] So yeah, the dog's eating on with flip flops. So is that was that Ronnie Va semi flip flops? No, it was Rafa Rafa, Brian. So yeah, if anyone wants to send me some flip flops, send them to Leve Studios or Rockford Studios dressed to me and I will happily we're them on our podcast. Thank you for shout out cuz you.
[00:20:41] And you won't get to see them . Well, yeah. I I don't think you've seen your feet
[00:20:45] Jon Con: yet. Nick . I don't see later.
[00:20:47] Nick Brine: No. . Yes. See later.
