old podcast 1
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[00:00:00] Brino's back, Jon con's back. Here we are again. Yeah, sad. Excited to come indoors again today. It was too hot yesterday. John thought. Sit by the pool. Bit of a breeze. There was no breeze. It was 72 degrees in the shade. Well, meanwhile, like over here, it's just like we've got all the breeze and no sun. So on today's episode, we've talked a little bit on one of the previous episodes about some of our favorite sessions where things went well in the previous episode.
[00:00:36] The thing that we, we were talking about as well is like the different stages to recording. What I wanted to kind of do today was focusing really in between where band thinks the songs. And talking about how can they prepare for the studio and how, what's, you know, what things can we do to kind of make it as easy as possible so the bands look, look professional, look are organized, and you know, invent effectively save time in the studio.
[00:00:58] Just to give an example, like imagine there's like two bands. We got band A and then band B are called the Struggle. So bandaid, like I, this is, this is going back to that episode where everything's kind of going well, they turn up, everything's rehearsed, instruments all sound really good, and. Everything kind of comes together really, really well.
[00:01:16] Um, and from an engineering perspective of, from like a productions perspective, because everything's well rehearsed because like everyone's instruments sound really good, you end up like sometimes, like the producer can look like a genius and basically, effectively all they're really doing is putting the mics up and they're getting them out, getting outta the way.
[00:01:32] Just let 'em get on with it Basically finds that you're spending more time like looking at the extra bits and pieces that you can add to make it better. , and that's something that like, I think is what I'm hoping that people will be striving for when they're going into the studio. In contrast, The second band.
[00:01:48] This happens from time to time. These are the things really, the bands kind of struggle. Like this is where like sessions may not go as smoothly and it's where things haven't really been thought through. People don't necessarily know the parts from your own experience. Nick, what should be your experiences with sessions that may not have gone as smoothly?
[00:02:04] So if we're talking, say grassroots level, as if we're saying, you know, fairly new. Trying to maybe do their first few recordings. Obviously we, we get the same problems with them over and over again. So they've come in, they haven't really looked at their instruments. It's kind of an afterthought. It's, uh, it'll be fine or we'll deal with that in the studio.
[00:02:22] And then we spend every, when we come to guitar overdubs, for instance, it's. Battling with the intonation. Battling with the tuning. That's if they've brought a tuna with them. I mean, some, some people don't bring ple drums, they don't bring a tuna, they don't bring a cable, they don't think about any of those things, really, ev it's always this assumption that a studio will have all of this and um, you know, we are there and well, we want a banjo on this track.
[00:02:43] And it's like, right, where's your banjo? Well, we don't have a banjo. Yeah. So these little things, they just leave into chance really. And assuming that it's the studio are gonna have them. And so, and it's the same thing over and over. I remember a story of a French band turning up at Rockford. They flew in, got the car from Heathrow, wherever it was, down to the studio.
[00:02:59] They arrive at the studio, they walked through the doors, loving it. We are here. Can't believe we're here. Right? Where's all the instruments? I, what do you mean? It's like, well, where is everything? Where's all your backline, your drums, your guitars, your bases, your bass amps, guitar amps? It's like, well, we don't have any.
[00:03:13] And they're like, well, we've come to record album. We didn't bring anything. We just assumed the studio would have it all. Yeah, cuz like, I, I suppose like Rockville was in this position where like, they've been dealing with bands where everything came in off. Others they didn't, the rockfield don't, didn't really need anything.
[00:03:28] Did. No, no, the bands would be bringing their own plus. Well, we know we carry, you know, we carry a lot of backline and instruments at our studio. We know the headaches of, once you've got that, there's a responsibility to make it usable, that it works, that the guitars are set up. Cuz band, once you make it available, it has to be of a decent quality that the bands can actually use it.
[00:03:49] Otherwise, it makes you look really shit when they turn up and you can't use any of it. Or this is guitars not in, you know, not set up at all or. You know, so they, yeah, that removes that headache for them from not having it. Obviously the main thing is the grand piano, the Hammond organ and the roads, things that are very difficult to transport.
[00:04:03] That's what Rockford carries, but they don't carry the other things, and this band had nothing, so they ended up having to hire it all in at a massive cost. But even then, you know, you just thought you would check. There's not really. That many big residential studios that do carry loads of backline really?
[00:04:19] You can maybe hire it in from them or something, but, so yeah, a lot of these bands, they leave things to chance. They come in, the guitars are in a mess, they haven't changed the strings for so long. And then, you know, you know when you, you look at take one, look at a drum kit and you can see the skins and you just know they're not gonna be usable and you are.
[00:04:35] Like there's a lot of, um, trigger or sample replacing going along to make it usable then, isn't it? Yeah, and I haven't brought any with them. Luckily we carry some, but like we've had, we've had situations where a band has come and re-skin their whole drum kit and like then bug it off. And it's like, that's at a cost of, you know, a couple of hundred pounds to us when, you know, they've, they've done that without our, without our knowing.
[00:04:56] Maybe we weren't on the session or whatever, but they've re-skin their whole kit. We're using our things and they bug it off. Yeah. So just coming and assuming we are just gonna press the magic button and make this drum kit that's not tuned, it's not ready to go. And also drum is who actually do bother to get new skins.
[00:05:12] And they turn up at the studio with new skins, but they're not on the drums. And you are thinking, we're thinking, right? Well now you've got a couple of hours of getting these heads on, breaking the heads in, tuning the kit. It's gonna slip out. Tune every five minutes now. You know? And, um, if it's just a snare, you know, big, big bands, like when we were doing like the, um, the one we took it on from the darkness, we would change the snare head every, I dunno, every, every day the snare head would be changed.
[00:05:37] Um, , you know, we'd play it in for an half an hour or so, and then we'd be away and you and off we go. But other bands, you'd expect to use the same set of heads for the whole session, even if it's a long album session. But they haven't to bring 'em. But they haven't put them on until they get there. Then you're waiting for them to put the new heads on.
[00:05:52] You're waiting for them to settle down, get used to the room, all of that. So I guess thinking about all these things beforehand and just, you know, Paris supplies for your pedals, or batteries for your pedals, all these things, yes, we can get all that stuff, but it just saves so much time. If it's just ready to.
[00:06:08] Obviously bigger bands, they tend to have techs and they tend to tend to have production cases. So they'll roll in their production case. Everything it's labeled, it's all in drawers, it's there. They can reach for whatever they want at any point cuz they use to touring. So it's a bit, a bit easier. So just talking about in like us talking about equipment and instruments, just from that point.
[00:06:24] But obviously there's all the other aspects of it. Um, so I dunno if you've got anything to add from the music, from the, uh, instrument side? Uh, I think, um, we've been in situations where, like you mentioned intonation and that's sometimes that comes up quite a bit is like, okay, the guitars in tune, like go through everything like new strings, everything's never, then like you go up to frat five, frat seven or something and all of a sudden because the intonation isn't quite in it's outta tune again.
[00:06:48] So you've then got this option of you. Tuned to like maybe the fifth threat, which I think we've done once or twice, we've actually tuned at the neck so that those notes would be in tune. You spend a bit of time working on the intonation, and I remember, um, there was this, like when I was in uni, like we had like, um, I think it was Phil Melford, he was just like a session basis.
[00:07:07] He played the plays. He went to like a road or air and he did all the backing tracks for. , the X Factor and Pop Idol before they went to the live, live instruments there. He's been on like, um, like strictly come dancing and stuff as one of the musicians and everything, and he was used to say that every time I change my strengths I always check the intonation just so then it's like, it's in, it's like if you can't on top of things and it, it just makes it a lot easier.
[00:07:28] I think one of the things when we talk about the intonation, it's like if you are investing, you know, like recording isn't exactly like, it can be an expensive, outgoing, and it's like you're investing in your future I guess. So if. You know, if you know you got a session coming up, there's no harm in taking it, like going to the local music shop and asking for a setup, um, that like, say like 23 quid or however much it might cost.
[00:07:50] Save you hours in the studio. Yeah. Yeah. And two things are gonna happen. , you're either gonna spend hours trying to get guitars in tune and recording everything. Tune into the note, tune into the chord, tune in, you know, and it takes hours. Then, especially if there's multiple ems, or you're gonna have to sacrifice the sound of that guitar, which is maybe the, the guitar that that song needs.
[00:08:08] And use a different guitar, which is maybe not good, or not necessarily the right sound you are after or you're gonna end up recording loads of guitars, and then the more you add on and you come to add other. You realize that it's all out tune and you have to redo it all. Um, which is then cost you hour.
[00:08:24] So any scenario is gonna cost you, cost you time and money basically. Yeah. And it happens time and time again, doesn't it? And it was, it said that one. And then the other thing that can sometimes happen is if the tuning, you know, the tuning heads is like a Jaguar and recently, and it's like a fan, it was a fan guitar was like a Jaguar.
[00:08:38] And literally you could play a couple chords on it and it'd be out tune again. And it's partly down to the Qatar and stuff. But we, we'd spent a day trying, like fighting. The tune is like, you know, this isn't working. Kind of reached out to a couple of people. We ended up borrowing guitars. Well, that's quite a specific sound, isn't it?
[00:08:54] You're after on using a guitar like that. So you've gotta, you can't really just get the Les Paul out the line in the studio and expect to get the same thing out of it. Plus how, how it's being played as well. If someone's used to playing a jag and that's the, the kind of part it is, then that's the guitar you really need to do it on.
[00:09:09] Um, yeah, so the technical aspects of it all, isn't it? You know, the making sure the instruments are all, all right, making sure you've got all your bit. You know, the. the right pls where, you know, the heavy ones. The thin ones. Um, bring your guitar cables as well. You know, bring, bring spare batteries for your pedals.
[00:09:27] Make sure your pedals Oh, the amount. Yeah. This one's got a war. It only problem is my wire's really noisy. It's got a problem with it. And it's like, right. Well if you'd have brought this up in pre-production or. If you brought this up beforehand, we could have made sure we had a wire pedal here. Luckily we do have a lot of those things anyway, but just it's that leaving it to chance and it always ends up costing us, even from a musical point of view, when someone says, oh, this one's got loads of harmonies on it, but nobody has worked out any harmonies at all.
[00:09:52] and it's fine cuz we can work out harmonies, we can layer parts, we come up with all that. But as time, that's maybe then four, five hours on a song that hasn't been scheduled in because that the parts haven't been worked out and there's 12 parts to work out for this song or something. So it applies to the music side of it and the technical side of the instrumentation side of it.
[00:10:10] And that kind of comes into, when we think about like parts and stuff that goes back into the previous episode of the podcast when we're talking about songwriting, it's working out like, does everyone know the. , like from start to finish, and could they play without the other instruments? But you'll normally find like, say like the bandaid, which we said like the, you know, the good band example, like from Pretty Vicious.
[00:10:29] He knew the song so well though. Basically we'd always start off with the guitars and stuff. He goes, nah, just gimme the click. I'll do the whole song about the band. Cause I knew, because he knew it and he kind of, he knew the structure of the song that well, that he was just like, no, just let me play. Then you have other times where like you'll, you'll do a guide track and then you realize they played something completely different each time.
[00:10:48] You're like, well, which one is it? Which one's the. Which one's the take that we're gonna use? Yeah. Especially when, when people want guitars double tracked and they say, well I just play it different every time. And it's like, well you're not gonna be do that. We'd have to drop in every, I'd rather you play the track cuz we, after a performance here because it's like, you know, performance based part whatever, and they're playing it different every time and then you just end up having to drop in every few bars or just do a few takes and comp it together.
[00:11:10] But it takes a lot longer because you need to make sure you've got the bits covered. Yeah. Defining what those parts are, I don't mind if the part's gonna develop in the studio, that's absolutely fine. But then you've gotta be mindful of don't just have the attitudes. Oh, I never played the same thing twice.
[00:11:22] Don't worry. But, you know, don't worry about it. It's like, well, you want, we gotta have this double track, so we have gotta worry about it. But yeah, there's, but there's a counter-argument to this kind of a like thing where take someone like Scott and Kit Pyramid, who would do none of that before he got to the studio.
[00:11:35] He, he would probably, you know, it's con, wholly concentrated. The music side of it. So he would bring his instruments and stuff, and he's got good quality instruments and we've never had any problems with them actually. But they, it would be, he, he probably wouldn't have had them set up or anything like that because to him, , that's not a problem if it's slightly une, slightly attitude and he likes to create kind of quirky kind of out there music and something that's interesting all the time so that, so someone like him is purposely maybe doing that so it doesn't follow a pattern.
[00:12:04] It's like, oh, I didn't bring a drum kit with, there's drums on this. Right? What we'll do is we'll use anything that's lying around, but obviously if it's a kind of rock band, again, indie band, you can't do that. Someone like Scott is making this kind of really kind of out there kind of quirky music. Visual and motive and everything, then, uh, he can, so he won't work on any parts.
[00:12:20] He'll have a basic demo or he'll have the structure or whatever, but it's all about changing in the studio. He is almost using me to write in the studio with him. He comes up with the basic ideas and then we work on it, and we build a track throughout the day, and it's all to him, it's all about. , it's in the moment.
[00:12:36] It's whatever happens on that given day with me and him in a room. That's the song. If the guitar's slightly, it doesn't matter which guitar, no, we'll just use that guitar over there. It doesn't matter. Slightly une, it doesn't matter. So there's a different approach, but that's, but that's, he's, he's actually got a method.
[00:12:52] So he actually is prepared because that's his approach. Whereas a band who's expecting great sounding drums, guitars, in tune parts, all nailed, layered harmonies, double tracks, it all has to be done before. If your approach is no, we get in the studio with no preconceptions and then we build. , then that's fine.
[00:13:09] Cuz that's still a plan. It's just your mindset is built to do that. So, you know, things are gonna go sideways, you know, things are gonna, you know, and you're working on parts. You haven't, you really worked out any overdose parts, but that's fine because that's factored into the time and the budget for, for doing that.
[00:13:24] That's a different approach. So it, yeah, it, it can, it can work that way, but I'm, as much as, it's like someone like kitten brun, it is, um, may seem chaotic and kind of, it, it actually does, is following. , um, a path of the way that we work. And, you know, he's found studios and producers and writers. I asked that, that actually benefit the way he works.
[00:13:47] If you went with someone else in other studios, he, he couldn't necessarily do it. The what he does. Imagine it takes a bit of time to get onto the same wavelength as well. It's not gonna, you've gotta be in the same wavelength. Yeah. And when someone's saying to you, you know, you need to have like a dust bin and a shopping basket and a set of keys and a drill ass, a drum kit , that's people just going's just not gonna get it.
[00:14:06] You know, it, it always works in, there is a method, but it's just, and, and when you're in that mindset that things are like that, it's fine. But when you're, you know, trying to get a really good recording of a band and a tight recording and a big, especially for rock record's, a big sounding, you need everyone to be on it.
[00:14:21] Know the parts, the instruments to be right. All that prep done and like we were saying in the previous podcast about maybe not having time or budget for pre-production, then the more of those things you can do. . You know, if we're in pre-production and abandon a room, we can tell them all this beforehand, right?
[00:14:37] Make sure that's got that on it. So make sure you bring that pedal or make sure you do this or make sure you do that. Save that preset on this so we don't have to fit, you know, fiddle around for God knows how long. Trying to remember what sound we got in rehearsals, AMP settings and things like that. You can take photos of your amp settings.
[00:14:52] It's just all that stuff saves time because especially tracks. There's lots of over DURs, lots of parts takes, you know, anything you can save little bits of time and it all adds up, especially when you're trying to make an album in a week or something. And then thank God it's, he's got a vision to like, um, another band that we work with returners, that when they're coming in, like Aaron, the guitarist, he's got a very, very clear vision of what he wants to do when he, when the session comes along.
[00:15:17] I wanna sound like this. Have you normally have, like we have our questions and emails come in and say like, have we got 12 string guitar? How have you got this amp? I'm thinking about these. And he's thought about like the arrangement of the acoustics. And you'll ask James the guitar, the other guitarist on the acoustic, you're right, I want you to play with this, like the cap on the fifth route or something.
[00:15:34] I'll just try out different arrangements. He's worked at everything. You know, which PLE should you know, you're gonna be using a thinner picture on this one. He's memorized all the all. You know, he's, he's like, I'm gonna triple track this. And he's memorized the three settings on the kind of chorus pedal for the three overdubs.
[00:15:50] You're gonna use this guitar for this one, this is it. And then for the second one, I just did this and I, he's memorized all those. And it's brilliant. And it's great because, and I mean if his ideas were terrible, then we'd, we'd be going in, going, ah, you know, not sure about this. And, you know, and if he was like really determined to use his ideas and they weren't working.
[00:16:07] But actually what he's done, he's, he's building sounds and he's obviously put a lot of work and pre-production into layering these sounds in the rehearsal rooms and in demo form. Jah. He knows, he knows that this works. He's been through it. This is what works. We do one like this, we do one, we put the capital on the fifth threat, we do another one there, blah, blah, blah.
[00:16:24] Yeah. And it's, it's, it's great for him to watch someone like that, isn't it? And it just makes it like those sessions and you can kind of sit back and relax in a way. But it, it's mainly cuz the work is like, you can see that the band of words in advance, they've done the work like rehearsals and stuff and it just makes it a little bit easier.
[00:16:40] Whereas, as we say, we mentioned where like sometimes it may not be. Organized and like, you go, right? I wanna record guitars. And it's like, okay. And they go get the guitar. It's like, what do I do now, ? I was like, well, eh, , plug it in, check it. I was like, start like you start cheating up. He's like, right, we're ready to record.
[00:16:58] He's like thinking. What's coming next? Should I get the stuff ready and all, like having like, um, a section on the, on the, on the, like in the studio thinking, right. Okay. This is Guitar World. We'll get everything. We'll get everything in tune. I thought I wanna use this. Get my stuff ready for the next section.
[00:17:13] Yeah. It's just they wait for us to say, it's time we wait. They wait for us to tell 'em it's time and then they go right. I'll start looking for everything and I'll start plugging it in. Where do you want this? Where do you want that? And TAs are always on the floor though, which is fine. It's always like, like young, young bands wish you put the guitar.
[00:17:27] Well, if you lay it on the floor, it's not gonna fall down. And, and usually in the doorway. So many times, basically in the control room, it leaders fail. It's like, where should we put these guitars? There's a guitar rack next to the doorway, but let's not put them in the guitar rack. Let's lay 'em on the floor in the doorway where everybody walks through and you can see it time and time again.
[00:17:46] I send you pictures of it. You send me pictures of it. Here we go again, John, look, there it is. There's the guitars in the walk of the, in the walk of the door. That's definitely where they all need to be. I mean, we can go on about this because about other things related to when you're going residential.
[00:17:58] So when you're at somewhere like Rockfield, even planning. Who's gonna, who's gonna cook? Can anyone cook? Who's gonna buy the food? It's not like, otherwise you get to 10 o'clock at night, no one's eaten, everyone's tired. They've, all they've bought is a block of cheese and a packet of crisps to go around like eight people.
[00:18:13] Um, and I haven't kind of worked on that. And then it's too late. The shops closed. They end up spending loads of money on takeaways and stuff, just thinking about, right, I'm gonna do breakfast, or we're gonna have stop for dinner at this time. So and so's gonna cook today. So and so we've bought all the food in.
[00:18:26] Or we'll go while you are putting the mic set. Otherwise, , you know, you, you, you want the band and then they've all gone to the shop and you're like, well I need all the band. It's like, did they all need to go? All five of them TRAs down the shops. They're two hours. And me and you were . I know me and you were sat there for two hours cause they all bug off.
[00:18:42] But, um, yeah, I know it sounds, that sounds trivial, but. That saves over like a week to 10 days. Just organizing all that kind of stuff and deciding whether it's actually worth getting catering in because the amount of time it saves on cooking and cleaning and going to the shops and all that kind of thing.
[00:18:56] So, but yeah, just all, there's another thing you can add that just saves those, saves the time really and means that me and you get to actually eat something. John, as matter of times, we're at one o'clock in the morning and we're just eating half sandwich. John as Matt, at times we're at one o'clock in the morning and we're just eating half sandwich and a packet of crisps get put on the table.
[00:19:13] Said, oh, I guess we're not stopping. Then . Yeah. Yeah. You know, we're not stopping for dinner. You guys don't get a break. You sit at that computer and just eat your dinner by there. Here we go. Yeah, I mean, I was, I know it sounds trivial, but there's those little things I was organizing. Some bands come and they're really organized.
[00:19:26] They've done a massive shot before they even get there. Yeah. They're like, you know, so-and-so's going to gonna get up to breakfast every day. So-and-so's cooking dinner. We're taking it in turns or whatever. Or you know, and some bands are really prepared and they. Now's a good time to go and prepare the dinner cuz us two aren't doing anything.
[00:19:42] So you guys crack on. How long do you need? What time do you want? Dinner ready? Eight o'clock. Yeah, eight o'clock. We all go. We have dinner. We're all ready to go. Again, back in the studio, everyone's buzzing when it gets to like midnight and you, like you say, you're getting served a, a packet of crisps and a and a sandwich and going, yeah, we we're not stopping for dinner.
[00:19:59] You gotta carry on it. Just over a long period of time that kind of wears you down really. And it's not the best use of time. I think being organized is just about organization preparation. Yeah. It is. One of the things that you can kind of ask as well, um, before going to the studios, like whoever you work with, whatever studio you're gonna go to is speak to the studio or speak to the producers that you're working with.
[00:20:17] Say, right, what do we need to bring? , is there anything that like, um, you know, like is there any questions that you'd like to ask as well? Just kinda think, well, what do we need to cover? What do we need to bring, what do we, what do you recommend us doing? Are there shops nearby? Um, cause obviously if you look at like residential studios, I think it's, you know, um, giant wafer studios.
[00:20:36] Well there's, there's a shop nearby, but it's run by volunteers. Yeah. Yeah. So it's only open for like three minutes on a Every Thursday. Yeah. And then if you missed that, then you're not getting food. So then it's, I think even thinking like that is like, okay, well we, residential studio, are there things nearby?
[00:20:51] Having questions and asking about what you need to bring. What I normally say to people is like, just, in terms of instruments. Just bring everything that you, yeah, you would usually use. If you're used to a guitar sound, then bring, bring everything that enables you to get that guitar sound quickly and easy.
[00:21:04] Yeah. Having every, yeah, having everything is then if we don't use it, then that's not a problem, but it's the option's there. I think expectations is another thing to think about. Like bands come in and they go, oh, they're in for three days. We're gonna do six songs. And you're like, really? You think you can do six songs?
[00:21:21] Well, yeah, we reversed them and we've gone through and we can record. They're only three minutes, you know, six minutes. You sort of play 'em all a couple of times. And maybe they're too green to know, like the overdub process and the editing process. They think they're great. We're in the light. You know, cold light a day when a drummer is playing there, the drums are all over the shop.
[00:21:36] We've gotta edit those drums to edit six drum tracks. Takes a long time to comp vocals. I think the singer's just gonna go in and blast it out. Reality is they're probably gonna be in there for a few hours doing a vocal. We're gonna need to comp it. We're then gonna need to fix a few bits. So expectations, what can you get done in that time?
[00:21:51] Are you better off in three days? Coming out with one song? Done really well, really well produced it. Two songs, maximum three, I would say. Unless you're doing a punk rock album where you're just gonna play it all through everyone's rehearsing. It's 10 songs set up, you know, record it in two days, mix it in a day, can't be done, has been done.
[00:22:10] Yeah. Expectations about what you can really get done. Having two or three really good songs is better than having six that just sound like demos, you know? And, um, are rushed, not performed that great. We don't do so much. And then, The mix process as well, you know, our expectations about how long is that gonna take to mix 'em, to get him to a really good standard.
[00:22:28] If there's tons of overdubs, tons of layers of backing vocals, and you want a big rock drum sound and there's 18 mics on the drums, we can't, it's really hard to mix those things sometimes. You've built the mix up in the, um, in the studio and it just sounds great and it. Other times, you know, you've still got loads to do production stuff kind of effects and like making the drums bigger and kind of getting it all happening.
[00:22:51] So yeah, it would definitely be something as a band who's starting out, or like a band who would think about going to the studio, speaking to the producers, even asking to visit and hand like pop in and seeing, having a chat. I think sometimes talking to the people you wanna work with and figure out what's gonna work and what's not gonna work or what's, you know.
[00:23:06] Yeah. What would they recommend. Sometimes you like, you might think that there's one person who's like the right fit. Or like sometimes it might be like, no, we might wanna work with someone. You might not get that. Like kind of like some people will entertain doing a song, record a mix in less three days.
[00:23:19] Other people will tell you that they can record a mixer song in a day, and that's the way they work and that's the way they've always done it. But yeah, speaking to who you're gonna be working with and having a realistic expectation and also, you know, thinking you might need to go back in the studio, maybe that's not, just put the pressure on yourself of everything has to be done while we're here.
[00:23:36] While we're here now. That's it. Otherwise, it's never gonna get done, and we've got no more budget. Having expectations that you might not get it. The singer might have a cold, they might have a sore throat, they might not be able to get all their vocals done. Some, you know, a song might you get, might get stuck on a certain part and you might lose half a day.
[00:23:53] And then that's eating up in your time. So you might have to come back to finish some bits off or to redo some vocals. Um, and it takes that pressure off. You're on the hat saying this is the be on end, or if it doesn't get done now occasionally that might be the case. You might all be flying in from other countries or whatever you're doing and you can't get any more time off work.
[00:24:10] Then that's where we come in to time, manage it, to keep it flowing, to make sure it gets done and we take all the stress on board from that. But, I think the expectations of what can we get done, what might come up. We might have to revisit this, allowing us some time that, okay, we'll spend all the time getting it recorded, but you need to book us for an extra two days to do the edited comp and tuning.
[00:24:29] Yeah, because the important thing is while the band are there, is to get the bands bits down. That's the expensive bit. Getting and the. takes the most organization, getting them all there at the same time in the room time, off work, whatever they have to do to get there for that period. Sometimes we're just making sure we've got everything we need from the band, but then we know we've got a ton of work to do afterwards.
[00:24:49] Yeah. Comping. We just leave all the takes. We comp 'em afterwards cuz we're gonna be up against it. But allowing us the time, you know, putting that in the budget to do it like that. And I usually do that with my, when I do a package for someone, it'll say, oh, we'll be doing 10 days, 11 days, recording 10 songs one day setting.
[00:25:06] Song a day recording. Then I'm gonna need three days to kind of edit comp tune or then working on about three songs a day kind of thing. And then I'm gonna mix it. If the budget's there, that's 10 days to mix 10 songs. If it's tight budget we're doing. 10 songs in five days. Then I'm also allowing an extra day for mix changes.
[00:25:23] What seems like a lot of times Soons get soon gets used up. Yeah, and having that day for mix changes, having those three days for the editing, it makes a massive difference to the mix when you've run, especially when you've only got five days to mix 10 songs, when you've got five days to do an album.
[00:25:38] when you have to do all the editing, all the comp in, all the tune in and all mix changes and mix 10 songs within five days. It's just, you're just not gonna get a mixed Yeah, the, the session then becomes like, the expectation becomes different and like, I suppose you could then think about, okay, well is there, like, is there a trade off in terms of the output or is there a trade off on the quality and stuff?
[00:25:58] And then that's something you have to. For the, the process, I guess, is there anything else that they might need to bring in? So what we've covered, just to go back over everything, so we just talked a little bit about like, you know, when sessions go well, like comparison when, when things might not go well.
[00:26:11] We talked a little bit, I think about like obviously guitars is tuning, spending on setups. Um, talked a little bit, I suppose about drums and I mean, drums themselves could be an episode in themselves. I think on the last episode we were talking about, um, As well. Drummers. Yeah, and like obviously talking about, you know, just the foundation of the kit.
[00:26:28] You know, drums, like often the foundations are recording, so thinking about that. Let's do a drum workshop. Let's do a drum podcast, John. Yeah, let's get someone on with us. We'll get a couple of drummers on as well. Yeah. Fuck of drummers by drummers, not me. That was the most embarrassing thing I ever had to do with soundcheck drums for Gil Nortons.
[00:26:43] I can't play this shit. And it's like, oh yeah, just, you know, go around the kit and groove. It's like, ha. . I think Danny was the engineering at the time. He had to come in and just like, it was just smash on the kit so he could get somethings like me. I can't believe the fucking shit. Yeah, I can tell drummers want to do and I've got an idea that like actually sitting behind a kit, I'm rubbish.
[00:27:00] Yeah, yeah. Drums. I said like drum. We do a drum one. Yeah. We'll do a whole, whole episode on drums. I guess Sassy musicians have you, you know a lot. Some bands want what Pianos on their songs and there's no piano players in the. Hmm. And you think, oh, we'll muddle through it. We could possibly drop in every, every bar, every chord and all that.
[00:27:17] And it's like, well, we'll get you a session player for a hundred pounds or whatever to come play on a song, and it's gonna save you that in studio time and, and headaches. Or we send it away. We have people we use, you know, we use Andrew Griffiths a lot for our orchestrations and things. People forget that when you're sending it to someone like that, not only.
[00:27:33] and you're getting great music back and great parts back. You are also saving time because you haven't gotta do it recording so you can be getting on with someone else and you're not you. You're not eating up studio time, they're doing it in their own studio. So you can carry on. You've still got a full 10, 12, 14 hour day or whatever.
[00:27:48] And you're getting your parts back. So the money, it's cost them, offset that against how much studio time you're saving and it makes it really cost effective. But thinking about that beforehand, rather than, oh, by the way, this has got loads of keyboards on it, but none of us play keyboards before you get there.
[00:28:02] Based on, yeah, I mean I can play, I can play, but there's a difference. If you want, if they're really intricate parts, you want to sound great, then you, you get, get someone in. But thinking about that and the string sections of just organizing the session players or other musicians, or if it's gonna be.
[00:28:15] When is it gonna be sent off? Because if, if you're mixing straight after, then you want to record the song that's got the strings or the pianos on at the beginning so that can get sent straight. Once it's done to the guys who are doing it, managing it, yeah. And then you can get it back in time for mixing.
[00:28:30] There's no point recording that song last and then you've gotta wait two weeks cuz you're mixing it. So again, it's that time management planning ahead. Four sessions. Like I remember like we had, um, there's a songwriting session we did in Rockfield and I think we brought in the bride and string quarter and we managed to send up song to Emma, who's obviously like the, the cello player and she put the arrangement together.
[00:28:49] So they came in, they had the sheet music ready to go, sat down, everything was micd up. And you pressed record. Sounds great, and it just obviously like just doing that and having that ready and I'm thinking about, that's gotta be planned into your production timeline and you've gotta think about that when we're doing it and.
[00:29:04] I mean that that happens if we do pre-production with a band, doesn't it? Cause we talk about all of that stuff. But it's when the pre-production doesn't happen and it's a band we don't know and we haven't had much communication with them. Yeah. And it can happen. And then they're like, oh, we'd like strings on this one.
[00:29:15] Do you think you can get people in? It's like, well you can't just magic players out of nowhere. They've got, they've gotta be arranged and you know, have we got studio time to do it? Have you got budget to do it? So yeah, all those things just think. Beforehand or, or can we get away with program strings?
[00:29:28] Does it have to be real strings? People think they want real strings on there, but does it need to be? Yeah. Um, no, I was gonna say like with, um, with the string players or say we're like session players like Trump or Seth and having that time, obviously when they come in, they've got the parts ready to go, that's great, but if not, and they're coming in blind, then it's just, well just allow a bit of time.
[00:29:45] Say it might take a couple of hours for them to learn, you know, pick up the song and it's just making sure, again, like whoever you're bringing in, if, if you're, if you're organizing it yourself. Yeah, bringing the right players. Making sure you're bring in enough players. How many times do we get it? Oh, we're gonna have, uh, we're gonna have Frugal Horn on this.
[00:29:59] And my Auntie Janet's coming in to do it. She's brilliant. You know, no experience, never put a pair of headphones on in the studio in her life. And it's like, as much as like, cuz she's doing it for free. Poor Auntie Janet's in there love rabbit in the headlock. It's stressful. Yeah. You can really stress.
[00:30:11] It's stressful, you know, getting the right player, the right person who's gonna play, and also is used to being in a studio. I think, you know, oh, my mate's coming in to do this and he's, he's free. It's like, yeah, here we. Here we go again. But also we can do a lot of, we can do a lot of those bits anyway cuz obviously when you're working with maybe pop stuff and just singers, maybe that's fine.
[00:30:30] We could program everything. We play guitars, drums, bass, you know, get by on the keys, program, strings, all of that. So, but yeah, don't take that for granted cuz you're not always working with people as talented as me and John and Constantine. So they might not do that. They might literally, so you need to check wherever you're working with beforehand.
[00:30:45] Yeah. So Practicing's always gonna be important. Um, tools. Anything that Pete bands or musicians should bring in to the studio that isn't the instrument themselves, but what, is there any tools that they could bring in that could help things along? Sorry, you said practicing then, and then one, one thing about prac.
[00:30:59] What, what you can practice on. Just, sorry.
[00:31:05] I don't think is an answer, is it? No. Um, so tools in terms of, um, you don't practice regardless of what Kingsley Ward. Well, well, at the end of the day, John, they're all doing it. , that's not a real T-shirt is it? No, . It's a Ben Matthews special. This one, they're all doing it. But, uh, one of, one of Kingsley's.
[00:31:29] Um, They're all doing it. Regular sayings, not sure what, we're not quite sure what that refers to. I mean, it's probably referred to something like they're all doing it, they're all getting number one records or all studios are going bust. They're all doing it. Or, um, I don't know. Could be something as simple as John, who knows?
[00:31:44] Yeah. Anyway. Where were we, John? Um, what I was asking is, um, tools, like is there anything like bands could bring in that would help session along? Like just to save. Um, not so much instruments, but things that would help the instruments. So yeah, things that, things that they could bring in. Yeah, so for drummers, not just the only set of battered sticks that you've got.
[00:32:03] So replacement sticks, maybe different weights as well. And also have a select, have brushes, have hot rods. That song hasn't got brushes or hot rods on it now. But you only get in the studio. It might do. Yeah. And you might need it, or mallets and things like that for symbol swells. Just make sure you've got a good stick bag.
[00:32:19] Make sure you. A spare drum key as well as your drum key, cuz we all know somewhere is a place on this earth that contains drum keys, socks and pens and platforms and s somewhere. Well s don't, some little space needle veil where there's like, it's just, I dunno how, but the mixing desk is full of platinums that none of us have ever bought.
[00:32:36] No, they just appear there. Cause no, we never put them in there either. They're just in there. So yeah, I a spare drum. So a good, good stick bag, you know, and in there's moon gels gaffer tape. You know, studios love gaffer tape. But. If you've got your own gaffer tape, then you're not wandering around trying to find the gaffer tape.
[00:32:50] It's in your stick bag is there, your moon gels are there. Really important cuz they are gonna get used. Your kit's gonna get retuned and patted down and even a pillow for inside your base drum or a blanket, whatever you used to use in that might get taken out. The front skin might get taken off. So yeah, spare skins, spit sticks.
[00:33:06] You don't wanna be in the studio and not, you know, and your Tom skin goes and you haven't got a spare one and it's eight o'clock at night, so you're not gonna get one until the next day. So yeah, that's the drummer, those kind of things. Yeah. And then bass players and guitarists. Change of strings, different gauges would be nice, but understand not everyone can, can afford to have like, Multiple sets, but at least, uh, a couple of, a couple of spare, um, tops and a couple of, you know, another, another spare pack.
[00:33:29] Same for the base tune. Bring your own tuner. Decent, decent tuna. As long as one person's got a good quality tuner, we can use that same ch we'll tend to use the same tuna for all the band. So yeah, when we do over Deb, so everyone's using the same. Yeah, extra ple drums, different weights, whether you're using, you know, little things about, thinking about if there's an acoustic guitar part, having some fast fit or something.
[00:33:48] If it's a part that involves lots of sliding, yes, we can sit there and get rid of those squeaks. But if it's really open and some, some guitars are just really harsh on the squeaks and we've got software we can use to use that, but we're often kind of dipping those out. But, um, maybe fast for it or something like that helps it anyway or whatever.
[00:34:05] But just be mindful of. Of that. Uh, for singers, you can be bring, you know, whether it's what you're used to using. If you're used to drinking, um, you know, honey, lemon, whatever, then bring your honey lemon. We've got all that stuff in the studio anyway, but, but bring it. If you're using vocal zones and you bring your vocal zones, by the way, if you need a vocal zone in Portman, um, endorsement, just speak to whips from Burning Crows.
[00:34:26] Think he's got, um, a shed full of them somewhere that he's trying to get rid of. When we're talking about the vocalists, I think, um, I've seen like some vocalists have like steam. The use is to kind of like warming up and then even just warming up, um, well in advance. So that's coming into studio. Like thinking when it comes to warming up, when we talked about like our favorite sessions, I always remember like Danny, uh, thunders, ready to go for vocals, like 10 in the morning he'll go off and warm up.
[00:34:49] Yeah. And then like they, you know, the big bands, if they're needed, yeah. They'll go in like, right, actually I need to go warm up for an hour. I remember like, uh, Matt Mitchell from color. , same thing. Yeah. He's like, he's, he's going warm up straight away, like first thing in the morning, be ready to go like 10, 11 in the morning if that's what was needed.
[00:35:03] And it's just thinking about that. You can't just walk into like the studio and it's gonna be perfect. Yeah. Taking, taking yourself off and actually doing that so it save again, that's that idea of saving time, I guess. Yeah. Cuz will, We'll always give you a warning. We'll always say, oh, we're gonna be about an hour.
[00:35:16] You'll be singing in about an hour. That's not an excuse. Go down the pub you got, that's an hour to go down the pub and drink 20 pints. Come back and do more vocals or sit there and get really nervous and kind of for an hour and worry about everything. That's your opportunity to get your shit together.
[00:35:29] What drinks do I need? It might be a bottle of Jack Daniels, but get the bottle of Jack Daniels ready. What do you need? You know? Yeah. Um, if an assistant there, go to the assistant, right? Get your assistant in there, get it vibed up. Get your candles. Get your pillows. Get your your, your mic stand, your music stand.
[00:35:42] We get the assistant doing all that stuff anyway, but anything you want in there with you, you spit bucket, whatever it is, start preparing it and do your warmups. So I think that kind of covers most of the stuff in terms of like, obviously preparing for the studio and what we need to do. So just looking at this now, like some of the notes made along, main takeaway is like just trying to maximize the time in the studio, so like you're as prepared as possible.
[00:36:04] Obviously like things can happen where it might not go as well. God, like saying first thing as well is like having a vision for your session. Knowing like, well, is it gonna be like a live recording? Are we gonna layer things up? Is it gonna be like kit, pyramid, where we are like talking about there's a vision in terms of right, I wanna make drums, but I'm gonna use different things or think outside the box and stuff.
[00:36:21] Mm-hmm. having like a plan and stuff for recording. Yeah. Rehearsing your parts, making sure everything fits together. So when you are practic. Looking at what everyone's playing and making sure the rhythms are the same. So even if that means like looking at the drums and the bass together or like, you know, turning everything down so we can hear each other.
[00:36:36] Knowing your structures, knowing like the outline of the song. Yeah. Your spares. Making sure that instruments are in tune, making sure obviously that you've looked at the intonation. That can be a really important one for guitars. And also like, yeah, spending money on, as we said earlier, like spending money on your setups can save you a lot of, in the studio and obviously like I don't like the term time is money in the studio.
[00:36:54] I always try to avoid it, but when you think about planning, if it saves you time and it makes you more efficient or it makes you better in the studio, then that setup's gonna save you hours and hours and hours, even days at times for recording. What would be good if there was some kind of checklist that we had John available that bands and musicians could download.
[00:37:12] I wonder if there's anything like that out there, John, currently, yeah, if you went to session people here or we can put here, or we can put over there. I don't know. There's a link somewhere to John. What I'll do is if we're doing that, um, it'll be down below in the comments of this video, um, if it's on the show.
[00:37:28] It also means show us of the podcast. If you're listening to this and you're not on YouTube, because you can see our faces, actually. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, um, your lovely continuity errors. But yeah, session record.com/band checklist. I think I've got it down this , and that should be like a starting point.
[00:37:43] So there's a bit about, obviously the business of the band. Um, there is a page towards recording as well, when, when you're looking at the studios and talking to producer, writing the questions rather than just rocking up and just assuming everything's gonna be great. Everyone loves a story. Everyone loves that.
[00:37:55] They're like, you know, We turned off and then we recorded, and now we saw a million records in a week. I mean, and th things change in the studio. You know, we, we are so used to, we've done so many thousands and thousands of sessions that things change and plans change and creative juices start flowing and things do adapt and change.
[00:38:11] And we have a great fun in the studio doing that. That's why we all love it, cuz every session is different and we, um, you don't quite know where it's gonna go, where it's gonna go. So it's exciting as well. So, yeah. But, but having a. It's great. That plan can go off in a, you know, tangents whatever. The more money you can save on that part of the process, the more money you can put into getting your music out there and actually doing something with your music, John, which we'll be talking about on another podcast about, right?
[00:38:34] We've been in the studio, we've done this, what the hell do we do with it now? Yeah, I think for that, for this episode, I think that's like a really good place to kind of leave it. Yep. Thanks again, Nick. Okay. I'm sorry, it's not as nice and sunny. I'm sorry you haven't got air conditioning outside. Yeah.
[00:38:46] Which I think's called winds as kings would say, session your recall, sign up to it. Cause. They're all doing it. They're all doing it. , we're gonna have to leave that later. Chill out.
