SR01 - How to get a job at Rockfield Studios - HD 1080p-Session Recall Podcast Mp3
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[00:00:00] Brino: No, no one seen me over the summer. No one knew what I was doing, and the next time they see me, it's walking into school and they're all. Is that, is that, is that Ian Brown?
[00:00:33] Brino: Hello and welcome
[00:00:34] Jon Con: to. One of the session Recall podcast my name is Jon Con, and today I'm joined as ever. Well, I will be joined again by Mr. Nicholas. Brine
[00:00:43] Brino: say hi name. Doing hi so. .
[00:00:46] Jon Con: So, yeah. What I wanna talk about today really is just Nick, how did you really get started in this? How did you really get started in the industry working as a recording engineer, leading on
[00:00:55] Jon Con: to being a producer?
[00:00:57] Brino: Yeah. So 30
[00:00:57] Brino: years ago very long time ago now I was still at school doing my GCSEs, and one afternoon I was wandering down Monmouth. and I bumped into a friend of mine, Darren Gala, who I used to go to gigs with and was also fellow musician. And we'd played together and he'd taken a job at Rockford a couple of years earlier, but he was leaving to go to the Guitar Institute in London.
[00:01:26] Brino: And he said to me, gonna be a vacancy at Rockfield. And I think you'd really enjoy the job, and I think you'd be really good at it. So I hadn't really thought about that. My plan was to finish my exams, go to sixth form, and then go on to uni. But I said yeah, sounds good. I mean, growing up in Monmouth, everybody knows about Rockfield.
[00:01:43] Brino: You regularly see all the bands walking around the high street, and you knew this studio was there because I had a massive passion for music as well, and was in bands. Obviously Rockfield was this amazing place that we never got to go to growing up, but we all knew. . So he said, all right, I'll sort, yeah, I'll sort it out then.
[00:02:03] Brino: So he got me an interview for the Friday afternoon and I finished my last GCSE on the Friday. And then my dad picked me up and took me over to Rockfield. My dad knew the guys over there because he was He had the local taxi firm in Monmouth, so he used to drive the likes of Robert Plant around in his taxi.
[00:02:22] Brino: So they knew my dad and my mum worked for like a, a kind of boutique clothing store in town, which was kind of linked to the studios as well. So they all knew my family, they all knew my mum. So I went for this interview and I could still remember the first time we drove up the drive. I'd had this image in my head of this big kind of estate house or something looking really portion And yeah.
[00:02:43] Brino: And so first thing that struck me was it wasn't like I had in my head at all. It was just this farm, kinda these old barns and all that kind of thing. So I can still remember driving up with my dad and we drove into the courtyard and Anne came and met us and then she said, oh, Kingsley's in the office.
[00:02:57] Brino: So in you go. So when I went couldn't remember first thing covered in dog hair, covered in dust, which is has been every day for the last 30 years and hasn't changed. Yeah. Wouldn't have it any other way. And there's Kingsley sat in his. He had this racing green v-neck jumper on, which I still think he has now cuz he doesn't often change his clothes.
[00:03:22] Brino: And it was covered in holes and porridge. So I remember this thinking, right. Okay, this is, this, this kind of weird looking office with this guy Kingsley. And yeah, he's covered in porridge and he got holes in his jumpers. So next thing the interview, interview starts. . And when I say interview, it wasn't really an interview, John.
[00:03:43] Brino: It was like he just talked at me for 40 minutes. He just talked at me, told me how, how rubbish the music business was, not to get involved in music. Don't get involved in the music business. It's terrible. There's no money in it. Been doing this for over 30 years now. He had a, he had a special dislike of American producers, so I think they must have been going through a bit of a, a rough patch at that time.
[00:04:08] Brino: And maybe they'd had lots of American producers in who'd been giving him a lot of grief and a lot of hard times because yeah, he was very negative about the whole thing. He said, go back to school, go to university, become an architect. So that was that was basically the whole interview. So I said nothing.
[00:04:24] Brino: I didn't confirm my name. He didn't ask me anything, what I was good at, if I liked music or anything. He just said to me, this is how the music business is. I know your family, so I know you're from a good family. We won't employ someone local. Music business is shit, so don't bother. But if when you get home you decide you want to do it, gimme a call and yeah, you can.
[00:04:45] Brino: And that was I think so by the time I, I mean, I got back in the car with my dad and my dad said, how did that go? And I just said, I have no idea. And my dad just went, yep, that sounds about right. He says, what you gonna do? And I just said, well, I'm gonna do it. By the time I'd got home, I decided I was gonna give it a go.
[00:05:02] Brino: I mean, my life had just taken this kind of quick turn. I'm gonna still add all my info back, my exams in my head, and all of a sudden, Agreeing to this job. And yes, so I got up Saturday morning, did my paper round. That was the last time I did that. And then Sunday got up and I had a Sunday job at a place called Homestar DIY.
[00:05:20] Brino: So I finished there and then Monday morning my dad took me down. That was it, my first day at Rockfield Studios on the Monday morning. Literally finished exams. Friday, started on the Monday. So just for context,
[00:05:33] Brino: I mean, what year was, were we looking at there
[00:05:35] Brino: for when you started? So, 90. , so this would've been June 90, 93.
[00:05:41] Jon Con: What I find amazing is the very first conversation, like the first session I worked with on you w with with you I think it was trademarks and great Kingsy said exactly the same thing. There's no money in music. We might as well give up. I've been doing this for hundreds of years and I've never made a fanny.
[00:05:58] Jon Con: Yeah. And so we might as well close
[00:06:00] Brino: up shop tomorrow. Yeah. I think that's been a regular story about, about recording studios that they don't make any money in. You know, but they're still going. Yeah. They're the first residential and they'll, they'll be the last still going, still as crazy as ever down there, but still just, yeah.
[00:06:15] Brino: One of the most amazing places to make music in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:19] Jon Con: Just so your first day at Rockfield, was it like an induction day? Did you have, like, you know, you get shown the ropes or
[00:06:26] Brino: were you straighten on the session? Yeah. No, no induction, no ropes. ? No, no, no. Health and safety. . No, not that existed in 1993.
[00:06:37] Brino: Anyway, but yeah, met, met Kingsley and lovely man called Gavin Christmas on the driveway. Gavin was the maintenance guy along with Otto, the Legend, and met them, met Kings. Kingsley handed me some keys and said, don't lose the keys, boy. So, which he's been saying to everyone for the last year since I've been this one of his things.
[00:06:58] Brino: Don't lose the keys with you. Don't lose the keys. She just handed me the keys and then said, off you go. Good luck. Gavin took me in the studio and there was Simon Dawson engineer who would become a great mentor and. kind of great friend for me. And yeah, so he was there, kind of explained to me, just, you know, do this, do that.
[00:07:19] Brino: Some basic things I could do. Make the teammate the coffee, keep the place tidy, but just sit there, gave me a chair, sit there, take it all in. Any questions, just let me know. And that was it. And Yeah, I had these keys to this like amazing studio and it was 16 years of age and it was day one and I didn't really know what, I didn't even know at that point what my job was.
[00:07:39] Brino: I didn't know what I'd got a job as. No one had told me you know what, what it was, I kind of had an idea that it was a tape hop stroke, stroke assistant stroke T boy. But no one had actually said anything. And yeah, in charge of the keys, Nick. Yeah, I was about, I had the keys, keys to the. .
[00:07:59] Jon Con: And what was the what was the first band that you were working on, or who was, what was the first session that you worked on on
[00:08:05] Brino: that first day?
[00:08:05] Brino: So, walked in and as I said, Simon was there, and then he introduced me to the producer and immediately I recognized the producer. It was a guy called Andy Wallace, legendary producer mix engineer. And he'd just done nevermind. So I, he was kind of legendary at that time and still is. But yeah, so he introduced me to him.
[00:08:26] Brino: He introduced me to the band, which was a band called se. And I knew all about Sulur cuz my best mate at school, Steven Fleetwood was a massive Sulur fan. So I'm thinking right here I am day one, there's Andy Wallace, just nevermind. And there's Sulur who I know all about because my best mate is massive fan of them.
[00:08:45] Brino: And they were brilliant and they were all great. Andy, what a lovely man. He kind of looked after me that session. Answered loads of questions and obviously I was like a sponge and I was nervous as well, but excited. Didn't have no fear at that age of 16, had no idea how records were made or what was going on.
[00:09:01] Brino: But he took the time with me and was, and was brilliant. And the band were great. We had a great summer hanging out with them. Went out into town, showed him like lot of the local pubs and kind of, yeah, they all took me took me into the session and had a great time. So at the time, obviously,
[00:09:17] Jon Con: like this is early nineties, what would what were the average session lengths?
[00:09:20] Jon Con: What would you be expecting to kind of be doing?
[00:09:23] Brino: Or how long would the sessions. So, so back then it, from talking to Simon, like I was on a month for them guys, and I think they'd been in for a couple of weeks before that. So that kind of six week period seemed to be the norm, really. So bans would book six, maybe eight weeks.
[00:09:40] Brino: They might have done four weeks pre-production and rehearsals somewhere else, and then they'd go off to London for a couple of weeks afterwards to mix it. So generally the session's about 12 weeks. with six to eight weeks of that being in Rockfield or you know, somewhere else. But yeah, and usually start to finish bands would do the whole, the whole album there and then go off somewhere else to mix it.
[00:10:04] Brino: And that was kind of average. That's six weeks. Yeah, kind of sessions, session lengths. We can only dream of now nowadays, do very, very few records that, you know, take, take that much time, that kind of 12 week period. Yeah. What was the next couple of sessions that you worked on? . So I did a couple of, a couple of days here and there just to help him out and actually helped with some building work for a few days after Sura left, which was putting in the booths down the side of the quadrangle studio and we fit in the ceilings with Dave Charles and was at that point a kind of, I got called over to the office cuz at that point I didn't have any idea how much money I was gonna be paid.
[00:10:40] Brino: I hadn't even asked, I mean, I'd done it for free. It didn't matter. No, but I thought, oh, maybe I'd get paid. I remember Anne called me over, oh, I need your details so we can pay you some money. I was thinking, oh, brilliant. There's money as well. But it didn't, it didn't matter because as far as I was concerned, it was a, an apprent.
[00:10:55] Brino: So I was on Kingsley, put me on this apprenticeship. He said, 12 months, you know, you'll be an engineer at the end of it. It's great. So I was like, brilliant. Go in, have this apprenticeship, I'm gonna be trained engineer, and then I'll have this certificate. And hadn't really thought about the money. So the money was 29 pounds for the week.
[00:11:15] Brino: which, a third of which went to my mum straight away for keep at home at the age of 16, I had to pay my weight. So 10 pounds, it went to my mum. I had 19 pounds left, which you could buy a lot with in them days, John. Yeah. And yeah, so that was, that was me. And it didn't matter. It didn't matter how much it was, I'd had done it, done it for nothing really.
[00:11:33] Brino: And there. And then a few days of that and then onto another session. Anne called me in and said, oh, Simon would like you to come on the session with him in the Coach House studios, and the session's gonna be six weeks long, which seemed to be the norm. And it's gonna be with the Stone Roses. Was this second coming?
[00:11:50] Brino: Second coming session? Yeah. So they'd obviously been at that album for a little while. Big fan of the band. Yeah. I was like, yeah, amazing. So straight into straight from Seur to Stone Roses, a band that I loved. Cause I mean, I love my rock music. I grew up listening to loads of rock music, going to rocks any guitar bands basically.
[00:12:10] Brino: And then kind of got a bit lost with that kind of whole, whole scene. And for me, those bands, the Stone and those other Manchester bands were that bridge. what was cool and what was happening and the guitar music that I loved. So became a massive fan of theirs straight away. Yeah. And they booked in for six weeks.
[00:12:28] Brino: That was how long we thought they were gonna be there for. , how long was the
[00:12:34] Jon Con: session in total then? Was it because it
[00:12:36] Brino: 14 months? 14 months? Is that, yeah, so 14 months they get an idea, like a couple of weeks on here, couple of weeks on there. And in the end Rockfield just went, you know what, just let us know when you're finished.
[00:12:45] Brino: So they just stopped booking anyone else in. Cause it soon became clear. We weren't gonna get it finished in six weeks. They just kept on booking, booking time on. But yeah, 14 months. , which for me was amazing because there wasn't much work going on. We played a lot of football, spent a lot of time in the pub, and the studio was empty a lot of the time.
[00:13:05] Brino: So Simon said, took, took the time with me to just kind of mentor me and train me. To how to produce an engineer, basically. So he had all this time and he could have easily just gone home, spent time with his young family that he had at the time or he could have gone to the pub with the guys, which we, we all did a bit of that.
[00:13:23] Brino: But he took a lot of time to go through everything as did PORs show to the producer. Cause there was hours and hours of nothing happening. So Simon would give me manuals for all the equipment. Say, read this one, read this one. Show me how to splice the tapes showed. what I needed to do every morning, you know, get how to prep the studio, which still Frank for straight in there, that assistant don't wanna prep the studios properly every morning.
[00:13:44] Brino: But it was a massive part of the job making sure that that was ready every morning for the band before they kicked off. You're saying
[00:13:50] Jon Con: obviously, like, I remember like on the documentary they talk about like the stone, I think you talk about it like the stone roses, like popping off to Manchester on the weekends Yeah.
[00:13:58] Brino: And taking tapes with them. Yeah. So yeah, they, well that was when the record label flying in from. . So, so we couldn't blame 'em, anything, everyone else would bug her off and they'd come and then it would be, oh, what can we hear? We're like, nothing. There's no tapes, there's nothing you can't hear. There's no band here.
[00:14:13] Brino: And then the weekends when they were away, like what was great for me is Simon would say, look, studio's, empty the band away. Bring your band in. It's the only way you're gonna get to become an engineer quickly and fast track is to learn the studio. And the only way to learn the. is really just to use it to its full potential.
[00:14:33] Brino: So my band, were all massive Roses fans as well. So for them it was like, what? You know, they're getting to come in, we're on, they're on Rennie's drums, we got John Amps, Manny's bass amps we're set up, we're using the Roses gear. We'd spend the weekends and they're recording our own stuff and I'd just be modelling my way through it because I didn't really still know what I was.
[00:14:53] Brino: only the bits that I'd picked up. But it, for me, it was amazing cuz I could fault fine without the stress and the pressures of recording a band. Cause it was my own band and it was free and they were just buzzing to be in Rockfield. Yeah. So it meant I could fault fine. Really figure out how the studio works, how the signal path work.
[00:15:09] Brino: What was the. The best way for workflow, things like that. Changing mics, setting things up. We could mess around with EQs. I mean, back then it was total recall on the desk so I could EQ and change everything and then just put it back afterwards. But we did that for like the 14 months. So it really, really fast tracked me into becoming an engineer because I was just doing it all the time in this massive studio.
[00:15:34] Brino: So then there was those opportunities during the session when there was a few days here and there that I would work with other bands as well. Then after, after the first year, I was kind of doing that already after the completion of my yeah, apprenticeship. So,
[00:15:49] Jon Con: so you've done this apprenticeship with Kingsley.
[00:15:51] Jon Con: What did you get at the what, what did you get at the end of that apprenticeship? What did Kingsley say? Did you get like a certificate, a pay
[00:16:00] Brino: rise? A pay rise? I get a pay rise. Yeah, it was a year and I was kind of like celebrating the first, the, the first year completion of my first year. So I went in and I said, I said so, so that's me a year now.
[00:16:13] Brino: So do I get my certificate or what's you know, what happens now? What do I go onto now? And thinking I'd come off apprenticeship wages, go onto normal wages. And he was like, well, when, when I said, when I said apprenticeship, it's it's a rock field apprenticeship. So what you've had is, you know, a rock field kind of experience for a year.
[00:16:31] Brino: You've got your already engineering, you've got to fast track to become an engineer. And well done. You are a fully qualified rockfield engineer there and you've passed your apprenticeship. And I, so it's like, okay, just so what are the wages now? Oh, it's the same wages, but we, yep. Okay. Anne. Anne.
[00:16:47] Brino: And he says they agreed to pay me five pounds I got if I stayed in the nights after dinner. And I did anyway. I just stayed 24 7. So I mean, it's just done roses. Yeah. So. Yeah, every night I stayed, I could get an extra five pounds if I stayed after dinner. Plus you got your dinner, which was nice.
[00:17:06] Brino: So yeah, extra 35 pounds. Yeah, so more than doubled my wages after the year. No certificate. But you know what, it did, it, it didn't, qualifications, didn't, didn't didn't really matter at that point. . And I'd imagine though if that
[00:17:18] Jon Con: if it was a certificate Kings, he might have drawn out for you. . I remember doing a website for Kings and he's like, you want me to design a website for the holiday lads?
[00:17:26] Jon Con: He's like, I've got the website, got it all drawn out, got all no, got all designs. Here's a website design. Hands me a piece of paper. You have like some boxes. And then like the writing of the website, what he wanted as a text.
[00:17:36] Brino: Here's a design. . He's a design. Yeah. Well, you got more than I did. I, I, you know, , mind you, I got a pay, I got a pay rise, I got got a pay rise, which was nice.
[00:17:47] Brino: But yeah, qualifications and all that, you know, I mean, yeah. When I started, as I say, on that first day, I'd just finished my exams. So yeah, yeah, I hadn't really thought about those. And then I hadn't really thought about the apprenticeship, to be honest. This was gonna be my life. This is where I, I felt really at home and this is what I wanted to do in my.
[00:18:06] Brino: Mm-hmm. .
[00:18:07] Jon Con: So over that time, obviously you said at the start you had so Stone Roses is effectively a second session. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:14] Brino: what happens on Results day? Yes. So I've, I guess it's in August, middle of August or whatever, and I think Ian Brown was sat there reading the paper and it's got on the front page about the results days and the expected, you know, usual stuff that happens every year.
[00:18:29] Brino: And he said, oh, Brian, isn't that isn't it your results day then as. Didn't, you know, have you got your GCSE results before you came in this morning? And I was like, no, I haven't. So were you gonna go and get 'em? And I was like, no, not really. Don't, don't think I need 'em now. You know, I wasn't really bothered.
[00:18:44] Brino: This is what I was gonna do. Didn't think the GCSEs would matter. Plus I didn't drive and the school was bloody miles away. So I was thinking, well, I'm just gonna stay here. I'm not gonna cycle all the way up to the school to get my results. You know, they'll probably get sent to my house or whatever.
[00:18:58] Brino: At some point, didn't really think about it and he was like, Nope, come on, it's a big day. Results day's, a big day. Come on, off we go. So off we go, get in their car and Ian Brown takes me to my school to get my GCSE results and. So he comes in with me, so he's like, yeah, I'm coming in. So he's coming in, he's got his big brown flares on his black leather jacket.
[00:19:19] Brino: He's spoken a fag, and we go into the school. He's still smoking a fag. I'm dying thinking, oh my God. And all my mates and all the people I've been to school with who were there getting their results and hanging around. Obviously all about to go out drinking for the day. They hadn't seen me for weeks cuz I just finished my exams and literally then started at Rockfield.
[00:19:35] Brino: Hadn't spoken to anyone days before, social media and mobile phones. So you're not gonna sit there, get the phone book out and ring everyone you went to school with and tell 'em, no, not like now, just put it on Facebook. So nobody knew, you know, no one seen me over the summer, no one knew what I was doing.
[00:19:49] Brino: And the next time they see me, it's walking into school and they're all. That is that is that Ian Brown And he kind of got explained to everyone why you're now in school with Ian Brown. And it was back in the day when your results were on a, a kind of thing on the wall. So he just walks up to the thing and he's like, I'm busy talking to him when he comes.
[00:20:06] Brino: Yep, yep, yep. Great. You're passed. Come on, we're going to the pub. So I did pass on my GCSEs and yeah, off we went to the pub and that was my GCSE results day. Not that they mattered to me really? And I've never needed 'em since. Well, you passed and you went to. Yeah. Had a lemonade obviously being only 16.
[00:20:27] Brino: Yeah. Stone rows second
[00:20:28] Jon Con: coming finishes. You finish it obviously like Kingsley. Then obviously like, I think he said he spent out some money and did it up like Coach Harris. Yeah. And put new carpets in. Yeah. New sofa. Yeah. Is that still the same sofa
[00:20:41] Brino: though there now, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yeah. So the green ones went, I mean, they're the only kind of business that I know that can do up an entire venue and it look exactly the same afterwards.
[00:20:50] Brino: Rich. Yeah, it's the same things, just, just new things, but they just fit in and look old and yeah, it still looks the same. The studio pretty much looks the same as the day I walked in it, you know, there's a, a few bits have changed paint wise and some of the material, but yeah, it's yeah. After the Stone Roses, obviously that was the resurgence of the studio.
[00:21:09] Brino: They'd been in kind of a bit of a dark period and the Stone Roses come in really kind of catapulted them back into the limelight and. , obviously, it was such a massively anticipated album. Such a huge album, and the explosion that was about to happen afterward. Brit Pop. Mm-hmm. that meant that Rockford was perfectly placed and primed and ready to go for that explosion.
[00:21:33] Brino: All because of the stone roses. Did you stay on as like assistant? Did you move
[00:21:37] Jon Con: up to engineer then, obviously from your working with Simon? Yeah. Still working as assistant. I was engineering some sessions. Some would come in and like they couldn't afford like, The producers who had done a lot of those records that were there and like Simon and things.
[00:21:52] Brino: So they would use, use Me cuz I'd been on there. They wanted to use someone associated with the Stone Rosa session. So I would end up doing so Manchester bands and yeah, on other sessions. And I was assisting for other amazing producers at the time as well. With lots of bands. Mm-hmm. and then,
[00:22:10] Brino: Yeah. So still working for Rockfield and I worked, stayed employed for Rockfield until I met Mr. Owen Morris who kind of hit it off with, and I ended up going freelance to work on all of his sessions. How did you meet Owen? Was he just from working? Did he just come in, sit on session? Yeah, he basically came in with Ash for 1977.
[00:22:31] Brino: So another amazing. Amazing album. Amazing guys. What, what a session that was. The 1977 session is one that will live me forever. It's just amazing time. We, I mean, they're the same, we are the same age. They were just straight outta school. They just finished their A Levels when they came. So we're the same age, so, you know, same age, same interest and with Oi Morris at the helm completing at a Netta.
[00:22:57] Brino: So yeah, brilliant album. And obviously that album went on to become really success. . And then from then I had to g go freelance to kind of work on all of Owen in Sessions, which weren't always at Rockford, but the majority of them were. And were you still, were you coming back and doing Sessions Rock? I, I, I was still really employed at Rockford.
[00:23:16] Brino: It was just, I was on a freelance basis as opposed to, I mean, I think at that point all the assistants became freelance rather than work for the studios. But yeah, I was still in Rockfield day in, day out, unless I had to go and do something with. I think that's a really good
[00:23:27] Jon Con: place to leave it there for part one of this podcast.
[00:23:30] Jon Con: I think we're gonna be picking this up now for the Brit Pop years with Nick in Rockfield and the other bands that he's worked with. And following on that then as well, I'll be looking at obviously his time in Leaders Farm and then the final stages obviously like coming up to like Present day Leaders Fail and the Look record label Flip Flop records.
[00:23:48] Jon Con: What we'd really like obviously is a new podcast. We're still obviously trying to find our. Any feedback, any reviews and stuff, we'd be really appreciative. If you could le give us some feedback or let us know what you think. If you have any questions, you can do that on [email protected]. And what we'd also allows you to do, if you can we'd really appreciate any reviews on the platforms that you listen to.
[00:24:11] Jon Con: Just because that helps us in terms of like, like getting discovered as a new
[00:24:14] Brino: platform.
