What goes into the role of a record producer? - Episode 14

This episode came about from our discussion of the roles a producer may be responsible for but isn't often get talked in the recording education space or often overlooked. Nick discusses his experience of working in house at Rockfield Studios, working for Rick Rubin on a Donovan record with Nigel Kennedy that was effectively a remote session way before remote sessions were a thing. We also discuss how education has changed and looking at the work experience position and how some institutes used to fall down due to teaching a topic or record production with limited or no experience. 

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Transcript

Transcript has been generated automatically and not checked for errors

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[00:00:00] Jon Con: The role of a producer

[00:00:01] Brino: and I thought you were gonna talk about my flip flop records t-shirt. John first. Oh yeah,

[00:00:05] Jon Con: sorry. Let's start there. Nick's got a flip flop records t-shirt,

[00:00:07] Brino: doesn't it look nice? Thanks you Scott, Milligan. Thanks Scott. Yeah, it was free. Anybody else to send me a merchandise. It was like

[00:00:13] Jon Con: secret faces got really happy when I was wearing their t-shirt on the podcast.

[00:00:16] So if you do wanna send us merch, we'll

[00:00:17] Brino: gladly wear it. Although he sent me my own merch , not his merch. , this is, this is even better. Could really do it. A couple of session recall ones John. So we're talking about production John?

[00:00:30] Jon Con: Yeah, we're talking about production and your flip flop record t-shirt. And also the whips has a vocals on endorsement.

[00:00:36] We haven't mentioned that in a while.

[00:00:37] Brino: We haven't not mentioned that in a while. No. Even though he is kind of semi-retired from the music business, he's still got his vocal zone endorsement. I think he's got a lifetime supply. So, so production. Yes. On

[00:00:48] Jon Con: production. So the angle we were gonna kind of go from it was, well, are there different roles of producers?

[00:00:53] Are there different types of producers that you've encountered? When you've been in the

[00:00:57] Brino: studio, so many different roles. I mean, you get, you know, we see it all the time. We have people come and work with us straight out of university and or we get applications and on the applications, say I'm a record producer.

[00:01:08] You know, if they're making music, even just in their bedrooms and releasing music and putting music together themselves in, yeah, they're producing music, they're a record producer. But I think when they're kind of telling you this, they're, they're saying that their role within our company should be a record producer because they are record producer when there's so much more involved in that.

[00:01:29] And I've worked with all different levels and styles and types of producer over the years, so it's really hard to say. Your record producer in a kind of working sense of the, of the words. Cause you know, so my role as a producer, it, I dunno, we've just done the Nada surf album and which I'm co-producing with Ian Lawton.

[00:01:50] And so the role of the producer on that is not just making the music, doing the pre-production, Ian's been doing all the pre-production as, as it is role as one of the producers and the rehearsals. And then there's the organization because they're spread out one lives. Texas. One is in Florida, one is in Iha, one is in Cambridge, in England.

[00:02:09] So as a producer, you are involved in the iterary of everybody and the logistics of getting everyone here. So that's booked by, they, they've got management, so the management help and all that, but the management need to know where they need to be, when they need to be there. So the role of producers putting that together, you know, and then helping with booking the flights, how they're gonna get from the airport to the studio.

[00:02:28] When do they need to go? Everyone arrived at different times. So it was like, how can. You know, we can't just afford to send cars to it, four different airports or whatever, and hire cars because it's just gonna eat into the budget. So it was the logistics of that. So how the session's gonna run. How do you make the, most of the time, the money, the budget, also the producers in charge of the budget.

[00:02:49] So how much the studio, how much the session musicians Are we having strings? Who's mixing it well? Where's it being mixed? Who's mastering it? How much are the flights? How much is the cars? How much is the petrol food budget every. So the producers really doing all that, and that's something maybe that you're not really being taught while you are being taught to be a producer in music college or uni.

[00:03:10] I think it's getting better. I think part of the business, they, they touch on that now and they do teach you a little bit more than that, but certainly they're never used to. So there's that role of producer a bit more in the sense of the film world where a producer. Put together the whole team, the studios, be in charge of the budgets, go and get the money from wherever they're getting the money from, and then put the team together, which is what a producer also does.

[00:03:33] It's put the right engineer for the project, the right mix, engineer, mastering engineer, make sure you're going to the right studio. There's no point going to Rockfield if you, you are gonna make a dance record and need loads of, you need to use logic and loads of plugins and you know, that kind of record.

[00:03:47] You wouldn't go, you wouldn't. Somewhere like Rockfield. So picking the right studio. Also take look at what the band are like, how much their budget is, and putting the whole thing together, start to finish and seeing it through from the, the, the point of concept of it to. Delivering it to the label or delivering it to the artist.

[00:04:06] There's many, many roles. So, and that takes a lot of skill and organization itself a lot of time. But that is your role as a, as a producer as well. And the label do that and the management. But as we know, a lot of the bands we work with now don't have, management, don't have labels a lot. Bands do it themselves.

[00:04:23] So you are involved in that. And that's kind of always, when I've worked with big producers over the years, they're, they're heavily involved in that side. From, you know, some, someone like Roy Thomas Baker went on tour with the darkness before the album and kind of really immersed himself in the, the world of the band and what they sounded like, and then all the pre-production and the writing sessions.

[00:04:44] But then there has been producers who maybe don't do any of that. They have managers themselves, and maybe their managers will take care of that, and they literally just concentrate on the music. Which I've been involved in. I've co-produced stuff. Then so like with Na Surf, Ian is taking care of all the logistics side of it and all the band side of it, and I'm taking care of all the music side of it.

[00:05:02] So my role is predominantly just the, the music and Ian is the day-to-day running of it, how the sessions are gonna flow, making sure everyone's aware of what they're doing all the time. But yeah, I've worked with lots of producers who don't get involved in that kind of thing. Or maybe they used to, but don't now, and loads who do.

[00:05:17] And then there's producers who. Aren't even in the room much cuz they may be just overseeing the session, overseeing the music. They've put the whole thing together and now they're confident. The whole thing. There's a great engineer in the studio, there's great session musicians on the, on their, they've got everyone to the studio, they're working on the budget in their room or office or whatever, and they're still working on the next session, the like book in the studio for mixing or book.

[00:05:42] String players or something and they're just pop in and out the studio and oversee the whole thing. Cuz all their kind of hard work and the pre-production partner's already done. So then it's just making sure everything is running smoothly as it should. And then there's other producers who are there every minute of the day heavily involved doing everything along with the engineer or maybe they're engineering themselves like me and you would do.

[00:06:02] Yeah. So yeah, lots of different, lots of different roles. And has the role of a producer changed over the years, I guess, but with the, with. . I mean, the producer always kind of did all those things, but now with less labels and less management companies around, or less, less artists being signed to labels and management companies, then maybe the producer has to do a lot more of that organizational stuff when you're working with the band.

[00:06:27] Cause the bands just want to concentrate on making, make it a record, make it the best record they can. So you're brought in as a producer cuz he knows us. He can organize everything. He knows our budget, and he'll make sure that record gets delivered on time and on budget. Work well with that band. You know, I mean, do your feet.

[00:06:43] You are obviously more involved in the kind of lecturing teaching world and colleges in uni, so how much time do you see devoted to that side of being a producer?

[00:06:54] Jon Con: I think it's, it's a really difficult, it's a really difficult position because there's that element where you've got the definition of producers also changed, so you've also got the, the producer in terms of like electronic music.

[00:07:08] like dance's, music. Yeah. So people will come and go, I'm a producer and what they're doing is obviously producing beats and stuff, but they'd never had any experience in the studio. And it kind, that kind of gets mixed up, I suppose, with obviously the traditional path where it's like, you know, and there's like the pathway from working as an assistant to engineer that might have worked from obviously like yourself from the nineties and maybe 82 thousands and stuff.

[00:07:28] That's kind of gone away a little bit from like the education side of things. I think a lot of it, most of the time is trying to get people up to speed on how to like, . You know, like the first year might be just getting 'em up to speed on recording. Like this is like, these are microphones. It's like a way to set up drums and stuff.

[00:07:44] Mm-hmm. . But like most of the time it's just trying to get 'em to like, Get in the habit of recording and working with other people. You know, for the final project, they might, you might be producing one or two people, but you can normally see with like the students who kind of coming in, the ones who are in there 24 7, they're obsessed with everything and they don't wanna leave.

[00:07:58] They're the ones who think, well, they, they probably have a shot at it. But then there's also, I think I, I, I dunno if this is gonna actually end up in the cut, but I know Ramash Ramash quit uni after the first year, after the first. . I don't think he ever graduated. I don't know, but I remember him Quinn.

[00:08:13] Cause I, I was mates of him when he went to uni. Yeah. And it's just because he is like, well I've got, I've got the studio at home. I'm not really learning anything. Yeah. I might as just carry on doing what I'm doing. And like the studios like South Wales at the time were the Morgan as it was. It's good, but it wasn't, you know, like he had better stuff at home.

[00:08:30] Brino: Yeah, and when you come into a studio and work on actual sessions, then you learn so much more. You're kind of fast tracked through the whole process, working with other professors, working with more artists, doing it day in, day out. You know, it's, it's nice to have that qualification and to learn some technical aspects, but he, someone like Ramesh would've already been.

[00:08:50] Up to speed on all that. He would've known how to use everything so switched on. Just a natural. So yeah. Was he gonna learn more in that, in that classroom environment or was he gonna learn more working with these bands? Yeah, and

[00:09:02] Jon Con: I think, I think, I'm pretty sure he got the shadow Greg Haver as well. For a bit.

[00:09:06] Yeah. I'm pretty sure he kind of came in and he'd like, you know,

[00:09:08] Brino: shadowing producers like that, that's, that's, that's worth, you know, weighting goals. You'll have to message your mesh about this and just double check . Yeah. If you can go up, go and work with someone like Greg Haer, or even go and work with a mesh now and shadow him, that's when you're gonna learn more.

[00:09:21] Then you can learn in a, you know, do a few weeks of that. You're learning a year's worth of a course. And it's just, but there's, you know, they're trying to change it, like speaking to a, to Adam in, in bridge end, and he's trying to write these things into the new course there, the degree course, the music business side of it, the roles of producers and things like that.

[00:09:39] So it's, and it's definitely getting better.

[00:09:42] Jon Con: If we go back, say 10 years, there's also been, I think a transition in terms of the people who are teaching it. Some of the people have come in and obviously had the experience of working. So I know in BIM in Brighton for a while, so Dan Swift, who worked on like the Snow Patrol records, Yeah, he was working as a producer and then he went, they obviously did some lecturing with Bruce in, in bim.

[00:09:59] Yeah. And then went back to being full-time producer. And so it was like, you get like people coming in and obviously the other thing you're trying to do is when we're in the education side of thing, is you're trying to bring in people to talk and stuff and say, well, like this is what it's like. Yeah.

[00:10:11] Rather than, I think maybe go back 10 years or maybe a bit more where

[00:10:14] Brino: it wasn't like it. We used to get people and they just didn't know, and they'd done three years at uni. They didn't know anything. You know, and think, I might talk this up before when we had Alex at Leader's Farm and Friend of his Paul, who were on a course in Cambridge, and they just came to the studio initially just for work experience, and they were saying they hadn't been taught any of these things.

[00:10:34] They had no idea that this was actually how you made a record. And I'm thinking, this is a degree course these guys are doing and they're really switched on. And they were like, we're telling our lecturer. How you make records. Mm-hmm. , we're going back and telling him, and he's asking us what do they do?

[00:10:50] And because their lecturer had gone to uni, done the course, then done his teaching degree, and now he's teaching these kids how to make records. Yeah. Yet he'd never been in a studio, he'd never been a producer, an engine, he'd never made a record, never been in a studio. And he was teaching him. And I thought that was really odd.

[00:11:07] And we were seeing it time and time again. People coming to us for a month and saying, I've learned more in my month than I have in three. Not my uni course, but when the industry changed and wasn't as much work and the money wasn't around for all the producers and engineers, you've got all these great producers and engineers around and they've made their way into the teaching world, you know, which is a great thing for the youngsters coming through.

[00:11:30] A great thing for the unis and the colleges, because now most of them are made up with professionals who've been there, done it, made records, ex musicians, ex producers, X engineers, X rail company. Who know the industry, know what you need to do, know what's involved. So it's massively improved now, but you still can't be being there on the ground in the studio working with great producers.

[00:11:52] And

[00:11:52] Jon Con: so, you know, you know when you started, like we've mentioned a bit about like the hands off approach and then I remember recently have you seen like the Rick Ruben clips? Like the interviews and stuff, I obviously like Rick Rubin's going like, oh, have you ever, do you know how to use your desk? Like, nope, no idea.

[00:12:07] don't, don't do that. And obviously his like approach is obviously he's, well, I suppose you call it music fan. Yeah. And he's got a very good gut feeling about music and obviously he, he has, obviously he has people to kind of do it.

[00:12:18] Brino: Yeah. I mean he's just amazing at putting together the right package for that artist, you know, the right people involved working on it.

[00:12:25] The right studios the right, like say music fan loving the music. Yeah. And there's our producers who come in who aren't, who aren't technical, who don't do anything on the desks, don't do anything on the pro tools, dunno how to do any of that stuff. But musically they're just switched. And they've just put together the whole thing and they're in charge of the whole thing.

[00:12:41] Yeah, but do you need to, not necessarily. If you are, I mean, we've, we do, because that a necessity cuz we can't afford an engineer so we do the kind of whole thing. So we've had to learn to do that. And then no one taught me how to use protocols. I had to use it cuz there was no money to get a programmer.

[00:12:55] Yeah. So I had to use it. But someone like that need to know those things. No. If you make a great record with a great team, then you don't need to, that's his role, that's what he does. He puts together the people. When I told the story before where he didn't even come to the session. Engineered for Rick Rubin.

[00:13:09] Just called me from his house every day, asked if everything was going well, and he was like, you know, at the end of the day, don't need to be there. You're in Rockfield, great studio. You've got Nigel Kennedy on the strings. Great violin player. You're a great engineer to record it. Why do I need, why do I need to be there?

[00:13:22] I've put you a lot together. Just do your thing.

[00:13:25] Jon Con: I was wondering, have we talked about that in the podcast?

[00:13:29] Brino: I'm not sure. Maybe you have now. . , yeah. Yeah. It was just, Greg just got to speak to him once a day. That was it. Talk to you tomorrow. . Yeah. It was on a Donovan record. Donovan never came either. Dono Donovan's like, why do I need to go?

[00:13:42] Nigel Kennedy in Rockville with Nick Bri. That's it. Everything's fine. Why do we need to, the only thing is he's

[00:13:47] Jon Con: like, you know when you just get left to do it and you kind of start second guessing yourself? Sometimes it's like, well, do they, is it, is this what they want? Do you like, how do you, I mean this.

[00:13:56] how do you send the files over to them to listen to? Was it playing it down the phone? Was it

[00:14:00] Brino: Well, we were on tape. Yeah, we were on tape. So, and no, because Rick's Rick's role was right. We need strings on this record, you know? Who's gonna kind of do the right job on this. And at the time, Nigel Kennedy's like one of the most famous kind of violinists in the world.

[00:14:17] Yeah. And still is. Nigel worked out of Rockfield a lot. He did a lot of stuff there. Who's a good engineer who's used to recording that kind of stuff, but Rockfield with like, you know, that was me. So then you go, no, I mean, you know, he brought. . I just wanted to meet him. I just thought he was coming.

[00:14:35] We all thought he was coming, but then I didn't have to, you know, recorded lots of violins. Rockford got great mics going through great pr. Yeah. Nigel will tell me if his violin doesn't sound right to him. So he'll say, and Nigel will know the Rockfield mics. And he, you know, we talked about it and he's like, yeah, well we usually use this and we usually use that.

[00:14:51] So, and we gave him like four choices or something. Yeah. But we were on tape, so we couldn't just upload files for them to check. Well,

[00:14:59] Jon Con: even until maybe a couple of years ago, you couldn't upload files in Rockfield

[00:15:02] Brino: very quickly. No. , no. Not unless you went down to cost of coffee. To use and borrow their wifi, but then I was like, I've just gotta record this and make sure all the mics are working and no, no noise, and it's captured nicely and keep, make Nigel comfortable.

[00:15:16] That's it. Keep, you know, keep Nigel aware when we're recording what we're doing. Yeah. Make sure it's all recorded nicely. Make sure it's all labeled nicely on the track sheets, on the tape boxes, and in the day. Do I need to tell Nigel Kennedy what to play or, you know, if it was any good? No, no. Nigel Kennedy knows if he played well and if the parts are good.

[00:15:36] So Nigel scored all the parts and then played them like, yeah. Like the genius he is. And then we sent the tapes back. We just got a note to say Thanks very much. Everything's great. No, that was that. Pretty sure the credit says on the album that strings produced and arranged by Rick Rubin , even though the strings were kind of produced and arranged by Nigel Kennedy and recorded by me.

[00:16:00] But I think I got a recorded credit. But I. Producing it as well. Yeah. So, you know, but who, who cares? It was a chance to get, you know, yeah. Work on a Donvan record and do something for Rick. Yeah. As I said, some who just aren't technical and don't get involved in any site, they don't want to get involved in the technical side of it.

[00:16:15] Jon Con: It's also tell you your vision. There's an element as well. It's like, I remember Gil Norton. . Hmm. Came up through tape and then obviously you've got to obviously producing like the Pixies and stuff. Mm-hmm. and it's very, very good and professional on tape and knows what he likes and is a very, very good, like, he's very good with relationships, he's very good at obviously directing bands and us, as we talked about when he came to Leve, he did like demos and stuff with the band for the first day.

[00:16:37] Mm-hmm. And spends a lot of time pre-production, but he always has an engineer now. I think working for him on like for a pro side because obviously learning that whole aspect that's gonna take away from his focus and time from the music, from the music. And the producing, so it's just like, well, it'd be easier.

[00:16:52] You can still make great records, or having to use a computer. As long as you've got someone there to do it.

[00:16:57] Brino: Yeah. But when it was all coming in, he was making big records. There was budgets for engineers, you know, and there was budgets for always getting engineering. Whereas I was in a position where all of a sudden the record companies were saying, right, the budget on this, we haven't got budget for a producer, engineer, and a programmer.

[00:17:12] We've got a budget for one person to do all three. So, and of course I knew I had to learn it. Yeah. Because I was an engineer as well as a producer. I was engineering for Rockfield and producing for Rockfield and for myself as well. And I wanted to learn. And Owen, who I was working with when we first used it, he didn't know how to use it.

[00:17:29] He didn't have any training. We were just sat there and we gotta learn this. We need to learn this now and fast cuz we're gonna be using this from now on. Cuz for Owen having like virtually unlimited tracks was like a godsend. And not being able to record over anything at six o'clock in the morning when you're absolutely off your head was another Godsend

[00:17:49] So we were like, better learn this quick. And then, yeah, luckily I was built the studio for GSI from oa. And he was like, what we gonna put in it? I was like, we've gotta put pros in it. These are the triple eight ones. The 80 eights actually. Yeah. So the triple eights and then went to, went when she went to the, the 1 92 s.

[00:18:07] Yeah, but the triple eights. And so he put a protos rig in. We got that. Technical Earth. Fred there, got us sorted up with all that stuff, put that in his studio, like put together with him and it was great cuz I could sit in that studio then all day, all night when we weren't recording stuff because the bands were coming in and there was no tape in that studio.

[00:18:26] It was just proto. So I got kind of really proficient on it pretty quick and that's, that was a massive help having that rig to, to be able to use every day. . I mean, before that people used to hire them in from FX rentals and it was a massive cost.

[00:18:37] Jon Con: You know, in terms of say like with with Owen and obviously like, we haven't really talked about the Oasis session.

[00:18:43] I know we've been talk about like haven't like an Oasis episode or whatever, but Owen and No's relationship. Hmm. Was Owen acting as like producer. Was Noel co-producing? Cuz I know it was obviously Noel had a vision

[00:18:53] for

[00:18:53] the records.

[00:18:54] Brino: Yeah. So yeah, they're co-producing together because, , you know, a lot of the time Noel's not there when, say some of the others are doing their parts or whatever, but they're massive conversations and about how the record should sound and how it should go.

[00:19:06] And, but also just going with the flow, you know, knowing that Owen's gonna get the best out of everybody and be creative and Noel knows what, what he wants and obviously writes amazing songs and is brilliant in the. You know, and Noel had mentors and would listen to other, to other people that he liked.

[00:19:26] And I know he took a lot for Wellow and stuff about how to make records and he'd been around the business and he just knew how to make records. But Owen was, yeah, doing his thing, his kind of way of recording his style of recording, which is why he was brought in. So yeah, that really, you know, worked well as a co co-production thing.

[00:19:42] And of course they had really good management and the label, and I had management, so there. Plenty of people to do all the organizing. And it was like to tell everyone, you just need to turn up there. Cause I don't think you could leave that entirely to to, to Owen. Really. We was busy making records, , you know, staying up all night.

[00:20:01] Yeah. But I mean, brilliant. And he is a great, you know, great producer and he's, and a great engineer as well because he's got so the ideas in his head, so he. Rather than rely on someone else all the time to get that out. And obviously the more I worked with him, the more I knew what he wanted and how to do that and how to get this, what he had in his head out of him.

[00:20:18] So came super easy in the end. Yeah, that was a really good relationship getting, getting their thoughts cause there wasn't really any clashes. Maybe the odd thing about who should do this or who should do that and the odd thing. But yeah, pretty, pretty seamless really.

[00:20:30] Jon Con: One of the things I think I've noticed it's related to.

[00:20:35] the difference between artists who possibly came up through tape and the people who came up were computers. Mm-hmm. . And I suppose it's also links in with having the ability to have as many takes and as many tracks as you need. And it's like knowing when something isn't working, making decisions. And also to say, oh yeah, that's, we've got the take.

[00:20:51] And I think sometimes, especially if we go back to the original, you know, the original discussion there, sometimes obviously like everyone, you've always gone for a safety take or like, oh, I just need another one just in case. And it's like kind of. Moved away. I've moved away from that now. I was like, no, I've, no, we've got it.

[00:21:05] Brino: And it's too easy in, isn't it, to do that? And it's too easy to overed everything to think you've got a, you know, make everything

[00:21:11] Jon Con: perfect and then Yeah, there's no character

[00:21:13] Brino: in it. Yeah. But comes through with experience. And I think someone like working with someone like Luke Morley, who's a great, great producer who just knows, and he grew up obviously in the days of tape and working with great producers, making their thunder records.

[00:21:27] He's brilliant at knowing when to leave something and when you need to redo. and like, you know, someone like, oh, should we do it again just in case? And he'd be the first to say, why. Yeah, why? Why are we all gonna waste waste time and waste energy? We've got it. It's brilliant. And wow, it was this little bit.

[00:21:41] No one's, no one's gonna care about that, but the time everything else is on that's gonna work or this is gonna work, he knows when something needs to be redone. And that's just for experience. And from growing up in the, in the industry with tape and no, you didn't have those luxuries. Yeah. You had to make a.

[00:21:57] Yes, he's very much about making records based on performance and not fixing things. You know, just getting the performance right and and when to leave it. He's brilliant at it. Having grown up with Tate, myself, and I have that element as well, because. You kind of just know when something isn't gonna make it any difference.

[00:22:12] When something does need to be fixed or when something doesn't need to be fixed. Bans, you know, they'll do a take and you can be on, you know, the second take could be the one. It's like you might go, oh, well let's do another one. But try, you might have an idea to try something just in case it's better if you do this or whatever.

[00:22:27] But after that, Band bands can, and some producers have worked with just, you know, chasing their tails for this. Just second guessing themselves and not making a decision. And just because of that and cuz they can, going on and doing, you're on Take 29, by which point, everyone's tired, everyone's pissed off.

[00:22:46] Everyone's had an argument. Everyone's lost the world to live. We all know that. Take two s is what I know that take two s the one and they want take 29. And at that, The band can't even get through a take anymore because there's so much information going in their head. They don't know what they're supposed to, what is it that we're missing or what else?

[00:23:06] And then they, and then they don't even get to the end of a take. Then all of a sudden on Take 29, they get to the end of the song without making a mistake. It's just exciting and everyone's high fiving and going, Hey, aren't we brilliant? That's the take. We got it guys. We got it. . But really all that is, is to take where everyone got to the end without making a mistake and it doesn't have the magic of take two where there may be movement, maybe the odd little mistake or maybe the thing that don't, that doesn't matter, but everyone's forgotten what magic take two add.

[00:23:31] Cause they've been for this whole process wasting everyone's tired and everyone's time's wasted. And then you just make the decision based on the fact that you got a take and then you listen to it the next day. And you're like, oh, right, yeah. Okay then. But it's wasted four hours. You know, it's knowing when to move on.

[00:23:49] We haven't got months and months to make records anymore. So knowing when to move on, knowing when it's right. Yeah. And knowing what you can fix later, you know? Yeah, that's right. But don't worry about that. That won't, you know, I can sort that. That's fine. No, but if anyone, if anyone out there wants to learn a bit more about production and engineers and how we do it, and then we've got our production workshop coming up.

[00:24:09] Yeah. Which that leaders. On the 11th, 12th, and 13th of April. Oh, well done I believe. There's still a couple of places left. We've got a few people booked on that. Yeah, there's a couple places left. That's gonna be great.

[00:24:21] Jon Con: Yeah, it's gonna be a website. If you wanna find out more information is www.sessionrecall.com/leedersvale.

[00:24:28] And yeah, all the information, three day event looking at, talking about production mixing and they'll be mastering next couple of episodes as well. What we'll be doing, like I think next week we're gonna be looking at Bix. and how we approach mix sessions and then also

[00:24:42] Brino: mastering a mastering trial. Yeah.

[00:24:44] Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:45] Jon Con: So thanks very much, Nick.

[00:24:46] Brino: You're welcome, John. Yeah.

[00:24:47] Jon Con: And then if I magic, we might just have of you wearing the same clothes in the next episode.

[00:24:50] Brino: Well, I just for continuity, next week when we do the next episode, I'm gonna wear the same things and I'm gonna come back to Leaders Veil. Yeah. Fly back from Spain.

[00:24:58] Just so I'm sat here in the same place, just for continuity. It looks good, Joe. I like this T-shirt. Yeah. You know. Well, I like

[00:25:04] Jon Con: the angle as well. It's a strong angle, you know, it takes a long time to get the cameras.

[00:25:07] Brino: Yeah, I might, I might, yeah, I might have a slightly different angle next time, John. You know, I can't, I can't set it up exactly the same every time.

[00:25:13] Wow.

[00:25:14] Jon Con: Some say they can't, but

[00:25:16] Brino: we know. Alright, nice one. Speak to you later.