Episode 12 - Assistants, interns and work experience - Starting in the industry

This week Nick and Jon are discussing the role of an assistant and the benefits of working as an intern. We talk about the difficulties of the job, expectation of the job in the past and how the role can develop. 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Please note that the transcript is generated automatically and not checked for errors. 

[00:00:00] Brino: Okay. Yeah. So just before we begin here, John, you've got rid of the cock off the wall. Yeah, S the bat's cock good.

[00:00:08] Jon Con: Yeah. So we had yeah, we just had a funding meeting with community funding project for the projects that we're thinking

[00:00:15] Brino: about. Yeah, I was on the meeting via. Zoom link and yeah, all I could see in the corner of my screen was the RIT return's cock during the whole meeting.

[00:00:32] Jon Con: How was your session, Nick?

[00:00:33] Brino: My session was gone start. Great. Yeah, so I just done three weeks in Rockfield with Nada Surf Pope producing the new album with Sir and Lawton, mainly a tour manager in front of house for lots of amazing bands and artists over the years. We've known each other for, since the Ash days, back in 90, whenever that was, 94, 95.

[00:00:55] Brino: So it was great to work with him and do another album, not a surf's last album Anyway, so yeah, well, [00:01:00] went to Rockville for three weeks. Had a great session. It was cold back there. And cost of living. Yeah, no, it's just cold in general. But yeah, we had a great time and we've nearly finished it.

[00:01:11] Brino: We're gonna do a few more days in leaders where you are right now. Just to tie in a few bits that they've been working on in their own studio since we left. Yeah, it'll be on to mixing off to the states to get someone to mix it, and it'll be out in all good record stores near you later this year, so we'll go buy it and go and see 'em live.

[00:01:29] Brino: So for, you know, for fans of kind of teenage fan club and bands like that, then yeah, I'd recommend going and check out NA to Surf. No, really good. And another great batch of songs. There's three or four big, big singles on this album as. Pretty straightforward. We have a kind of a routine where kind of a unit is kind of doing all the kind of logistics and organization and kind of rounding up the troops and making the session flow and kind of organizing what we're gonna be doing on what days.

[00:01:54] Brino: And I'm kind of just concentrated on the, the engineering and the, the music side of it and [00:02:00] Doing all the editing and kind of keeping that going. So yeah, I'm first in last out and Ian's kind it work, it works really well. He's known the band for years, so he, you know, he can kind of keep the session flowing that way as long as he's got, as long as he's got his pasti there for lunch and and he is beer there in the evening.

[00:02:18] Brino: He's a happy, happy man episode.

[00:02:21] Jon Con: She had do a whole episode just on studio food. Yeah. Especially pasties, pot noodles. Anything yellow based.

[00:02:27] Brino: Yeah, fruit. Occasionally. Yeah. And sometimes we're two weeks into a session and we go, we haven't drank any water, John, for two weeks. Just coffee and beer for two weeks.

[00:02:36] Brino: But yeah, you gotta remember to keep your water up in the studio. Is it on Dexus

[00:02:39] Jon Con: session? We're like, like I think our diet was whole chicken

[00:02:43] Brino: here. and some falafels. Yeah. Every day. Chicken falafels. I think we might have had some cashews in there as well. Yeah, bands try and be helpful. I'm sorry. Healthy and I think that was our

[00:02:56] Jon Con: choice, wasn't it? Yeah. I think we thought that was healthy.

[00:02:58] Brino: Yeah. But bands try and be healthy. And then [00:03:00] Penfold arrives with all the goodies from the co-op. The crisp of death and things like that. And it's impossible when they sat there not to, not to touch him, especially when he gets late and you're tired and you, you know, you start to flag a bit.

[00:03:11] Brino: You think, oh yeah, I'll just have one of those cookies or one of those bags of crisp, that, that was one

[00:03:14] Jon Con: of the greatest moves we caught, wasn't it, just in terms of moving from the town center. Just to be in the first shop.

[00:03:20] Brino: Yeah. To Rockford. To Rockford. So you just have to nip. Yeah, nip to nip to the co-op, pay through the roof for everything.

[00:03:26] Brino: But they do do fresh fresh quants in the morning, John. Ooh. And fresh Lada. Yeah, the old white chocolate and cranberry cookies. Oh, cookies.

[00:03:35] Jon Con: Yeah. Yeah. What I was thinking about today was we talked a little bit about, you know careers. Suppose with bands. Yeah. And like musicians and like songwriting careers, because we've talked about this topic quite often and it was, I suppose it came up a little bit today and the funding meeting was around about assistance.

[00:03:50] Jon Con: Yeah. Really, I suppose like what makes a good assistant? What would you say? What advice would you give to people who might be the starts of their career? Where would [00:04:00] they start with being, like how would they start by getting into like the role of assistance or

[00:04:04] Brino: going down that path? I mean, it's so tough because at the beginning you're obviously expected to come into an environment you're not used to, to being in really get paid nothing or maybe some expenses or next to nothing and work long hours.

[00:04:17] Brino: But it's still the best way into the. to work with engineers and producers and in big studios, get your foot through that door cuz these places and these people get so many applications that it's really difficult to get in. And of course everybody's got a degree now. So how do you differentiate between the ones who've got a degree when you're gonna employ someone and.

[00:04:37] Brino: Ones who's gonna be good at the jobs? And that's usually the ones that have gone and done an internship or done some work experience or shadowed an engineer or producer and can have that hands-on experience. You're much more likely to pick that person if they've done three months with say, a producer.

[00:04:52] Brino: We know, you know, we know that that producer wouldn't put up with them in the studio if they were an idiot. So if they've got done that, then. They're probably suited [00:05:00] to the job and their studio etiquette will be gerden or things like that. So you're more likely to take them on as an assistant. But at the beginning it's so hard.

[00:05:06] Brino: I mean, at the moment, we've just taken young lad on Reese and he's, he's done really well. So he has no kind of training or experience or, you know, no degree hasn't done it. A technical course or production course or anything, but he, he was always on time. He was always available. He stayed start to finish.

[00:05:23] Brino: He did as much as he could. He got on with everybody really fitted in and that counted for much more than whether he had a degree. Yes, it would've been nice for. To have go on pro tools and kind of, you know, maybe do some of the editing and things like that. But, but generally all the other things made up for that.

[00:05:41] Brino: And I'd have to have to show him everything, like even the basics about setting up microphones and things like that. But that was fine because he, he found his role, he was really useful to the band. The bass player wanted to go to the shops every day to get the, the food cuz he was cooking for everybody.

[00:05:54] Brino: There was lots of people flying in, so there was airport trips, there was picking people up from the station, [00:06:00] things like that. And he was brilliant at doing all that. And he was always available, really enthusiastic, and he basically got on with everybody. Now there's others who've come in recently and they've got, they're doing a course, they're doing a degree, they've had training.

[00:06:11] Brino: They know a lot more. So you ask 'em to put a mic up, no problem. They'll go in and they'll put a mic up. You ask 'em to go and set their guitar rigs up. They'll go in and do that, no problem. You ask them to do some basic edits on protos. They can do that, no problem. But counteract that with the fact that they turn at plate or halfway through the afternoon, they go, ah, I'd forgot to tell you I'm going this afternoon, which is fine.

[00:06:31] Brino: If they're not being paid, they're free to come and. As and when they want to. The thing is that it's really difficult to organize if they've told you they're gonna be there and all of a sudden the last minute they tell you they're not gonna be there and you've organized for something that's gonna be happening.

[00:06:42] Brino: Maybe you've got a a, an orchestra coming in or a choir coming in, you need that extra pair of hands and all of a sudden they throw, oh, I'm gonna go that organizational thing. And then not really being part of the session cuz they miss out on so much shall they miss out on the night. Things that go on that kind of.

[00:06:57] Brino: The camaraderie and the kind of social life that happens [00:07:00] when you finish if they're only there for those few hours. Yeah, the fun bits. So you get someone then who's got much more experience and much more technical knowledge yet they don't quite fit in cuz they're not, they, you know, there's always an excuse.

[00:07:12] Brino: They're always late, they're always got, can't ask, sorry, I can't make tomorrow cuz this or can't make tomorrow. And it's like, right. Well, okay, I understand you, you know. Only being paid a low amount of money, but how else are you gonna learn as you're there all the time and see an album through from start to finish and, and to know if you're really gonna love it.

[00:07:27] Brino: And so that's kind of how we can find out who really wants to do it and who doesn't. So the technical ability at the beginning is, is useful, but it's not the be all and end all. I've

[00:07:37] Jon Con: taken people on same thing like, so. Right. Okay. Sessions starting at 10. If we can get in at nine o'clock, just. So just have a bit of time to set up the mics and everything.

[00:07:45] Jon Con: That'd be great. And then they kind of rock up at, at half 10, 11 o'clock. I remember I did one session in the hall and it like involves like taking like over a hundred foot multi-core around the rooms into the back. And then there's quite a lot of set up, packed down. So I'm normally in quite early to do that.

[00:07:58] Jon Con: And so like if we can get in for about nine o'clock, that'd be [00:08:00] great. And the session goes on for quite a bit and it's like, come to pack down. So I got left, now I gotta

[00:08:03] Brino: go. It's like, yeah, great. And you don't, you know, on one. They're not really being paid, so they are kind of free to come and go. It's those set ups and pack downs where they're really gonna learn and they're really gonna learn the amount of work and effort that's, that that's needed and all the work that goes on around the session before and afterwards.

[00:08:20] Brino: Yeah, and also you've kind of, if you'd have known they weren't gonna. Be there for the pat down, you'd have got someone else who did want to be there for the pat down. Yeah. But you have no chance to organize that then, cuz they throw it on you at the last minute. So it's getting a balance. You know, we've been fortunate to have some, some great assistance over the years.

[00:08:35] Brino: Years, you know, but you can't keep them forever and you don't want to keep them forever. The point is, they come with you for a year, 18 months, learn the ropes, get the experience, and then move on to become engineers or producers or get full-time jobs at studios or they've gained all that knowledge to, to run their own studios and things like that.

[00:08:51] Brino: You know, and we've had. Obviously Chris Ben Fold, who was great, always got on with people, was always there on time, always stayed late at [00:09:00] night for that extra effort. And I think it fast tracked him onto becoming a good engineer and producer and being able to run his sessions at his own studio better.

[00:09:09] Brino: So these kind of recent studios, I'm gonna say Reeses and just joined us, but he's already doing really well. I think he learned so much in that three weeks on that. that he, he would've taken him months and months to learn that. I, I

[00:09:21] Jon Con: suppose I was in a weird position. I self-taught and recorded myself, so I was always kind of making things up as I going along and watching producers before working with you.

[00:09:28] Jon Con: And I remembered like when you go on like a residential session where you're in for two, three weeks, it's not like, you know, when you're teaching or something, you might get two hours, three hours on the lesson. It's not really the same. Cause you might be right, let's go make up a drum kit. You've just about got the mic up.

[00:09:44] Jon Con: You might have got a sound and it's time to pack it all down. In real life, someone else has come into the room, so you don't really get that time. You get to, you get to like put the studios out and do things yourself, but because you're not watching like people who are doing this day in, day out, then you won't be learning as quickly.

[00:09:59] Jon Con: And [00:10:00] like the things that you learned from like, you know, sitting in with yourself or like Gil nor and Greg Haer. The, the first session thing I worked with in Hanks for Rockfield was for Greg. And it was doing strings from Chesky and just learning like decry setup and like how they approached that.

[00:10:14] Jon Con: It just, you know, yeah. Became really useful and really helpful. Cause when it came to like public services broadcasting, then we had, it was basically a day of strings, day of brass. And then we had the. Just having that set up. Okay, cool. I can do that. I know

[00:10:26] Brino: how to do that. You've been there in an under pressure situation in a studio that costs a lot of money with players.

[00:10:30] Brino: That costs a lot of money. You've gotta get it, get in there, get it done. It's gotta be well recorded and it's gotta be done. So you've had that experience and yeah, it's hard to have that experience in a classroom because when you're doing 14, 15, 16 hour days for three weeks, , all these eventualities that arise, like there's a problem with the desk or someone's not, you know, is ill or there's a problem with this track or something's happened or you wanna gotta change something or the drum sound's not right, so you wanna move the drums.

[00:10:56] Brino: These things don't arise in a, in a classroom scenario. [00:11:00] Yeah. So when you're part of that session for that long, all these different situations and all the things that arise and there's all the fun parts too that you know and cause you really learn what happens on a session. , the more sessions you do and work with producers, you see how they deal with different artists and different people and when to do certain things and when not to do certain things and how you get yourself out of this situation or.

[00:11:20] Brino: How you get the, create the sounds that are in, in people's minds and things like that. So it's brilliant. And as I say, Reese on this new session, we will have him on actually talking about this at some point and how he's getting on and what ideas for the future are because he's someone who's just joined us, you know, and he's literally just done the one session and He's coming back to do another cup for me week after next.

[00:11:41] Brino: Yeah. And he's doing well. He's already got his nickname. So, you know, once, once you start getting your nickname, that's an important part really. You know, you're in there and if you don't get a nickname then then you're not gonna be there long . So yeah, he's he's spoons from now on. So he was always coming in with his little teaspoon asking everybody what what they wanted.

[00:11:57] Brino: And also his name's Reese. And that became Reese wither [00:12:00] Reese wither spoons. And that became Wetherspoons . And that became spoons. And he anyways had his little teeth. So he is now spoons. Chris Chris Ramsey was Penfold. Just cuz Thunder said, well he can't come in the room. You know he's, oh, he's obviously gonna stay cuz he's brilliant.

[00:12:14] Brino: So he can't come in if he hadn't got a nickname. Everyone has to have a nickname. Danny just went Penfold and he's though he is Penfold from Danger Mouse for those old enough to remember Danger Mouse. And yeah, we've had some great nicknames. Candles. Obviously it's another good one because, but yeah.

[00:12:29] Brino: But when your name is Joe Malone. Yeah, Joe Malone makes candles. So he is Candles. Josh one another good one cuz it's similar to Gwan. So he's Josh Juan. Yeah. Looks good Naked. Yeah, so, you know, you become part of the session, part of the, the feel of the thing and, and you get used to how much work and effort goes in after three weeks, all them hours.

[00:12:47] Brino: How tired everyone starts to get and how you, how you have to keep that energy going to the end, and how much work and effort really goes into making. An album, especially nowadays in a short space of time. Is it beneficial

[00:12:58] Jon Con: though, because he hasn't [00:13:00] had the experience? Is that almost bad or is

[00:13:02] Brino: it, it, some respects it is because he has no preconceptions that he's a producer already.

[00:13:07] Brino: He's an engineer already and he's literally just there taking advice, like, what do I do? And you know, and you just tell him the usual things, the studio et don't, don't comment on this and you don't. You know, don't, don't start saying this in the middle of when someone's trying to work stuff out because you dunno what they've already tried and, but obviously if someone asks you, then you give your opinions and.

[00:13:26] Brino: So it's very raw. I mean, yeah, it is frustrating when you think I would like him to just be able to go and set that up for me while I'm doing this, but I need to go and show him how to do it. I can't just expect him to know it cuz he doesn't. Yeah. So there's those frustrating elements, but that's also rewarding when you show someone how to do that and they only need to be shown once and the next time they're like confident, I'll go in, I'll do that, I'll sort that out, and you go and check it and it's done.

[00:13:48] Brino: Cause obviously they've taken that in, they're listening, they're concentrating, you know, it's important. come and do whole sessions and just see the whole process start to finish. Mm-hmm. and, you know, get to learn, especially with a, like a band like Nada Surf when they [00:14:00] all live in different places around the world.

[00:14:01] Brino: So the logistics of getting them all to the studio and flying them in and their flights and their hotels and, you know, the daily briefings that everyone has and all things like that. So you're getting to see all these other aspects of a working session. and you're in somewhere like Rockfield. So you know, you come with us, you learn rockfield inside out cuz you keep coming there with us on sessions.

[00:14:19] Brino: And then the opportunities arise where Rockfield haven't got an assistant for a session. They know that you've been working in there dozens of times with us, so why not get you in? And then you start getting paid as an assistant in studios like that. Or whether we go to Red Kit or wherever we go, or whether they come on as engineers and assistants then.

[00:14:38] Brino: Bigger sessions when there's budgets and they start earning money, then, but the only way to to do that is to really know the studio inside out, because to make a good assistant, when a producer, new producer comes in, they just expect the assistant to know the studio. They, you are the person they're gonna go to to tell them how everything operates.

[00:14:54] Brino: And when there's faults, why is this happening? You need to know. Yeah. And how do you work around that quickly? Yeah. So you can't go on sessions like [00:15:00] that until you know all those things. So in the meantime, the only way to learn that is to come on sessions with like me and me and you. And learn all the quirks of a studio.

[00:15:08] Brino: Learn how to fault, find, learn how to keep a session going if something starts to go wrong. And you can't, you can't just, you know, you need to be in a room on a session when all those things arise and then take note of, you know, oh, write it down. That happened and then we had to do this. Yeah. But yeah, just be a sponge and take it all in.

[00:15:25] Brino: Yeah. I've been for, I mean, I've been fortunate. We've had some stinkers, I have to say , you know, this. I've had a couple that have maybe lasted an hour. , you know, An hour, it was two hours. This one at Leaders' Farm was like two hours maybe. There's been a couple who we got in at Rockfield and they, they just didn't last.

[00:15:43] Brino: There's some that didn't last anytime cause they didn't turn up and then never, you know, they never we're never seen again. But you know, they come and go. So we have to go through salmon for whatever reason. Some don't, just don't fit in or they, you know, it's not quite right. And we try, we always try and give opportunities to people and have a few [00:16:00] come in and go at the same time, you know.

[00:16:01] Brino: But You always find a good one, then you like to hang onto them. But the plan is not to have them working for you, for nothing, for forever. The plan is that they come on board, then they become an engineer and an assistant engineer and start getting paid, and then hopefully they go on and get a job in the industry and then we move on to the next one.

[00:16:17] Brino: So we're always training new people up. But yeah, we've had. So, yeah, candles was a great, great assistant, great person to have her in the studio. When you're feeling down, you're a bit tired, all you needed to do was see candles in the morning. You're already , you are already, you know, sets you off, laughing, you're ready for the day.

[00:16:34] Brino: And then you've got like someone like Josh who's just. Super, super talented, a great producer and engineer, and you could tell that from the beginning made a great assistant because he could get on with everybody, but technically he knew everything you knew. He'd just go on to do great things as well.

[00:16:47] Brino: Because

[00:16:48] Jon Con: Josh, if I remember right, you saying, I remember, I think this came up on the Rockfield session. Did he ring leaders' farm? Did he? Cuz you spoke him over the phone.

[00:16:56] Brino: Did, yeah. Yeah, I think I'm, I'm not, I can't [00:17:00] quite remember. It was about Leader's Farm and then he came in, I think the first session he came in on, I was just coming back from Leader's Farm, was possibly the union session with Luke Morley.

[00:17:10] Brino: I think it was that one. And his first one he came in, which was at Rockfield. I think I spoke to him while I was at Leader's Farm. But you just knew he was. You know, it was great to have around a great assistant, but you knew he was gonna go on and become great producer and engineer. Now he's running his own studios.

[00:17:22] Brino: He's worked in lots of great studios. Yeah, he's really experienced now. Yeah. And going on about Good, good Assistants. You know, we were lucky at, at LE's Farm I ended up with three assistants, cuz we had, we obviously had the main studio there and then we were so busy. We built Studio two to accommodate kind of more budget sessions and local bands.

[00:17:40] Brino: We had two studios which were pretty much booked all the time and that, so they became a need for three assistance. I've been in a position before, back in, back in the nineties when Rockford only had two assistants and both studios were fully booked all the time, and me and a guy called Paul Reid, we just had to work every day.

[00:17:59] Brino: [00:18:00] He was mainly in the quadrant gone. I was in the coach house and because the studios were booked all the time, there's only two assistants. We were just all the time. We were there, and I think when it got to Christmas and I went to. Get my Christmas wages off, Ann, and she said, oh, here's your, here's your sheet for the year.

[00:18:17] Brino: And she went, oh, you've been slacking this year, Nick. You've had you've had four days off this year. , although it was, it was four days. I mean, there was only about 18 at the time. So you could, you could deal with that. But those are long days. There're seven days a week. Do you

[00:18:33] Jon Con: find, you know, like on the long sessions, do you find that when you stop, that's when your body catches up and it almost crash?

[00:18:39] Jon Con: So you have your, you slack off over

[00:18:41] Brino: Christmas. Yeah, I felt over Christmas. Felt absolutely terrible. When you're in the studio, you just keep going, don't you? And you, you feel rough a few days. You just keep going. The one thing that filled me with dread on those sessions is you might have done a six week album session and you know what it's like the last night probably goes on till four, five in the morning cuz it's all on tape.

[00:18:59] Brino: So [00:19:00] you, you know, you've gotta get everything bounced onto the tapes, whether you're recording the chambers in and the echo plates and things like that. Backing up the tapes. If you're making tape copies, it goes. Five, six in the morning. You gotta do recalls of all the settings when it was all analog. And then you gotta pack the studio down cuz every band has a blank canvas when they come in.

[00:19:17] Brino: So you've just done six weeks of all these really long hours, you've packed the studio down, it's immaculate. The cleaners are coming in to Hoover at 9:00 AM and you are taking the tray of plates and cups back up to the bungalow and the van for the next band is arriving. And you haven't been to bed, you, you've finished a six week session, and as you are taking the dirty cuffs up, UPS come, the band is arriving for the next session, which could be a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 week session.

[00:19:46] Brino: and there's no time in between the two. And that the feeling of that your heart's sinking going, I've not been to bed and now I've gotta set up a whole band with a whole new load of people that I don't know. Different producer, different engineer. And it's that kind of thing where you just [00:20:00] take a deep breath, put on a big kind of smile and I have to have energy cuz you don't wanna.

[00:20:04] Brino: The banded turned up and go, Hey mate, how you doing? Like, well, to be honest with you, I'm really fucked. You know, really can't be bothered with this today. Doesn't work. You don't want that enthusiasm, the same kind of energy, the same, you know, they're excited, they're about to start an album. They're about to start their journey and recording at Rockfield and so yeah, that was tough back then when it was back to back.

[00:20:24] Brino: and you wouldn't go to bed and you knew there was no time to recover. You were just gonna be pretty much hired for the next session. But, you know, we were young and there was

[00:20:33] Jon Con: no, and that's why you ended up having three in

[00:20:35] Brino: LE's Farm. Yeah. So I was lucky, lucky enough at Leaders Farm. So of the three great assistants I was just telling you about, ha only having two at Rockfield when is both studios were fully booked.

[00:20:46] Brino: The same happened at Leaders. And we had the two studios fully booked, so we needed three assistance cuz I'd been in that situation before and was like, you can't have just two assistance with two studios running all the time. So we had three, we went [00:21:00] through quite a few like people, we put up an advert and it was like 197 applications in 24 hours for the job.

[00:21:07] Brino: Whi that down to about 14 that I actually gave phone interviews to. And then I think about eight came for I. So most of those came and went, weren't suitable for whatever reason. Some were nightmares. There was a few that came in, lasted a few weeks, but just, I dunno, the initiative wasn't there. It was just, you know, you just little, there's just little things that start to bug you when you run running a business, like, you know, the TV's been moved out, the route one of the rooms by a band.

[00:21:35] Brino: Then you say to the system, can you take the the TV and put it back? And then you, you go into that room later and there's a TV. in the middle of a floor, in a bedroom, and you have to go and get 'em and go. Do you think that's where the TV goes? You know, and you shouldn't really have to explain those things.

[00:21:50] Brino: They seem quite, quite trivial, but when they're kind of all day, every day these things, you're like, this, this guy can't just, can't think for themselves. They can't the thing to do is to put the TV [00:22:00] back where it should go, plug it in. Connect it, make sure it's working, and then, then leave it. And that just the systems that do that that, you know, have got something about him.

[00:22:09] Brino: So yeah, we were lucky in the end. We had three, two local guys. Oh, Morgan, who is a fantastic musician from Norridge. Wonderful. Alex, who was from just around the corner from the studio, Alex Edmonds. And we had Dougle or Dougle what, or Braveheart as we called. mad Scottsman, we mad here like drinking whiskey.

[00:22:29] Brino: So the other two were local and he, he came from afar, so his position was a living position, so he got to live in, in the studios rent free and kind of supplied his expenses, his food. And then we've just put them on retainers cuz it's difficult. And you know, you don't wanna not pay someone, but you can't really afford to have 'em all on the payroll every day because there's just not enough money in the sessions of the studio to do that.

[00:22:51] Brino: So we put them on retainers and that. They could go off and do other things so Owen could do his gigs cause he was great. Ja jazz musician had lots of jazz [00:23:00] gigs. They could do live. Alex was doing live sound or a few production things at home with two studios and three assistants. There's always someone can have a a, a day off or a night off, so someone can go, let, I've got a gig or so and so.

[00:23:10] Brino: So can you do that one in between them? It just works. Or someone could have the time off to go and earn extra money doing other things. And that would bump their money up. And obviously when the en engineering sessions came in, they would get paid as engineers and those three, they were just really the heart and spirit of our studio.

[00:23:27] Brino: You know, they were, they were brilliant. They, they kind of helped us elevate it to a great studio and stayed of us for a long time. And have, I've went and left quite emotional leaving and leaving those three, cuz if I could have taken them with me and, yeah, done it again, I'd have taken. them with me cuz they all just worked so hard.

[00:23:41] Brino: We're all really good engineers. Got on with everybody, I mean, you know, had some great nights, mainly drinking nights with Google. Some brilliant fun with them all, you know, everybody you worked with, 'em loved, loved them. And cuz we had the smaller studio there, they could engineer bands which was fast tracking their engineering experience cuz they could go into the small [00:24:00] studio with a local band.

[00:24:00] Brino: That kind of pressures off really. And around those three we would've interns or work experience people. And that was a little bit hit or miss. You know, sometimes it's just common sense, you know, you say to someone, right, that's that, that fridge there is the band stuff and that fridge is the house stuff.

[00:24:15] Brino: So help yourself to the stuff in that fridge, but don't touch anything in that fridge. And later on Kate, Kate comes to the fridge and. Gives me a call. She says, come here a minute. And I go into the kitchen and in the, in this fridge, the band fridge is like smashed glass everywhere. So there's glass in food, there's glass got in the trifold, there's glass got everywhere and it's all there.

[00:24:34] Brino: We're like, what the hell's happened here? And then one of, one of the work experience guys comes in and he says, oh yeah, I went to get a jug of water and I dropped the jug of water in the fridge and it went down and smashed and it's gone everywhere. And it was like, would you not think to like. Tell someone or, or pick up that there's glass in there.

[00:24:53] Brino: He said, you said not to touch anything in that, in that fridge, cuz it's the band fridge and it's just moments like that and was like, yeah, but [00:25:00] not, not when you've smashed a massive jug. You know? We mean like, don't go eating all their food or drinking all their beer . If you smash a massive jug on, on everything, you have to come and tell us all clean it up

[00:25:10] Brino: So there's little things like that. Yeah. Oh, we've had some, we've had some funny moments. I mean, An assistant called Dog Tanya and he was brilliant. So, so yeah, he got a few, few ideas above his station and there's a wonderful article written in the local press where he claims to have got a, a five year contract as an engineer cuz we were so impressed with his massive skills that we immediately went sign this guy up on a five year deal for 60 grand a year.

[00:25:41] Brino: I mean, Stop, stop, stop. Footballers you not footballers. So you don't get contracts. You know, you don't have, like, you don't get signed up as an assistant on 60 grand a year. It just doesn't happen. So anyway, he told this to the, to the press and then it kind of escalated and there's a wonderful article about it in the I dunno, the [00:26:00] east dang and daily press or whatever it was.

[00:26:01] Brino: And in it is a photo. When it says in the photo it's Ray and, and myself and Dan Hawkins from the Darkness. But in fact me and Dan aren't in the picture at all. This is how good the journalism is. Dan's one of the most famous musicians in the country at the time and they've written that this is me and Dan in this picture and which is quite clearly not us.

[00:26:18] Brino: It's just dog Tanium with his two university lecturers who are now into so much pressure. Because they've got this pupil who's signed a five year contract on 60 grand a year. We're saying that he's the best thing ever that they can, they, they pass him to his course when I don't think he was going to pass

[00:26:36] Brino: And all of a sudden he did amazingly pass with top marks on top of his class cuz they under so much pressure. And he became like the poster, boy you walked in and it was like, almost like this massive mural of Dog tan saying you too could be thinking about a gold if, if you . Yeah, God, you too could be dog tan.

[00:26:53] Brino: If you come here, you can end up with this you know, massive contract . It was so funny. Yeah. And there was like [00:27:00] an, in the interview it was loads of things saying that it was, you know, he did this and did that. And yeah, none of it, none of it was true whatsoever. So, you know, got, he did maybe use a little bit of initiative there, John, but maybe, maybe too much initiative, but like,

[00:27:13] Jon Con: but surely like people would've noticed that he was never at the studio.

[00:27:17] Jon Con: Yeah. Did he go to the studio? Did he actually turn

[00:27:19] Brino: up at the studio? Yeah, he used to come. Yeah, he used to come on the sessions and he was assisting with us on work experience, you know, while doing his college course. But, you know, we definitely didn't sign him up on his five year contract on 60 grand a year.

[00:27:31] Brino: And far as I know, there was an investigation that had to take place afterwards. . Yeah. It was it was very difficult then to approach that, you know, and, and the worst thing was is then they start moonlighting because people go in. We'll get this guy who they think is the best thing ever on 60 grand a year to mix our tracks.

[00:27:46] Brino: And he's moonlighting under the leader's farm name. And then I'm getting phone calls from people, angry, angry mothers. You've mixed my son's tracks. You charged this much money. It sounds terrible. You haven't, they haven't seen any track. And [00:28:00] I'm going, I'm really sorry. I have no idea who you are. And they're like, my son's banned such and such and like, Nope, never heard of them.

[00:28:06] Brino: And of course you realize then they've been moonlighting under. Banner and doing very bad work on not, not doing the work, taking money, and it, and it reflects on us. So all those people are then saying, well, we went to that studio and the work was really bad and we didn't get our thing and they charged us this.

[00:28:24] Brino: Well, we didn't. So that's the downside of doing something like that is how that reflects. If you're not a good producing engineer yet, and you. Saying you are, and then you start moonlighting the, without like the studio knowing anything about it, it comes back because we got angry complaints and we had to kind of deal with all that stuff then.

[00:28:41] Brino: Yeah. And there's, you know, we could, we could go our great, great stories. I mean, one of our, we had Andy Bell, who was our first leaders farm assistant, and what a legend he is. And has gone on to become like folk producer of the year and produce many folk albums of the year, win Win awards as folk album of the year.

[00:28:58] Brino: Fantastic guy, [00:29:00] fantastic producer, engineer. He really helped us get that business off the ground because he was already a, a proper engineer really, and he had something about him and everybody loved him. Before that we had our very first leaders farm assistant, who is a young lad called Asa, who you'd have Assa on a session in a heartbeat, just because he was, he was so funny, or you never knew what he was gonna come out with.

[00:29:23] Brino: I mean, from a technical aspect, never in a million years , you know, but What, what legend to have around. I mean, some of his sayings that he came out with are still legendary in, in our world. You know, , you know, you could, you could tell him anything, bless him, but there's moments that'll just stay with me forever.

[00:29:41] Brino: It was just so, you know, it was like, yeah, he's not the best assistant in the world, but we gotta have him around. You can't, you can't not have this guy around cuz he's so brilliant to have a round, you know, moments when you could convince him he was hypnotized or. Just and so he'd be going round all day thinking he was hypnotized, , you know?[00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Brino: And then and then you'd ask him to go up a ladder and he'd, and he wouldn't. He's like, I can't go up a ladder. I'm hypnotized. I can't go up there. Yeah. So brilliant. Say he come out with so many, still drinking, driving really, isn't it? . Yeah. And he probably still doesn't know to this day that Brian Adams wasn't asleep in the cottage room when he was there one day, cuz he loved Brian Adams.

[00:30:19] Brino: And so we told him that Brian Adams was there after his after his concert, he had nowhere to stay. So he rang us up and said, can I stay with you? And then it were terrible, you know, so there was, we tell him, Brian Adams there, but we tell him you can't go near the cottage because he's sleeping and you, you gotta be quiet.

[00:30:34] Brino: We stayed at, had a few beers. You can't, don't go near there. And he's, he's on gardening duties that. So he's like, right, right. I won't go near there. So no, no garden near there. And you see him slowly work his way round from one side of the garden till he is right outside the window, all of a sudden paying far too much attention to the shrubbery, outside the cottage window, trying to get a peek in so he can get a look.

[00:30:55] Brino: And he comes in. I think I saw him. I think he's up. He's up. I just saw him [00:31:00] walk past the window. I know, I know I shouldn't have been over there. But the shrubs really needed doing over there. And he said, ah, you saw him, did you? He's up. And then we sent him off to the shop. To get something and he comes back and he goes, is he up yet?

[00:31:11] Brino: And he was like, yeah, he just came and had breakfast with us all. He's gone now. He had to shoot off his car came. He's like, I can't believe I've missed him. And he probably doesn't know to this day that Brian Adams was not asleep in there. He was just brilliant to have around on sessions. But yeah, there's kind of ace stories of legendary, I suppose, like the positive energy and

[00:31:27] Jon Con: stuff as well.

[00:31:27] Jon Con: Like if there, you know, if there's like a good vibe or like there's a good energy to it, you wanna have them around. Whereas as you were saying, when there's someone like maybe bit. And kind of bring the mood

[00:31:36] Brino: down. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he, he went on to have a great crew, became an electrician in the end, and did really well, big projects did really well for himself, so, you know, because he, he, he could, he could learn, he would take things in.

[00:31:47] Brino: He was, you know, paying attention. Maybe it wasn't suited to him as a producer engineer, but you'd have him around. And in that, in that environment, like a tradesman environment as well, where the camaraderie, getting on with people's really important. You, you [00:32:00] knew he'd fit into any environment. You know, there'd always be banter because he'd always come out with some absolute classics, but he'd fit into that kind of world, you know, as well.

[00:32:09] Brino: So yeah, he brilliant. You know, he went on to do well for himself as well. I think. I

[00:32:12] Jon Con: think as you said about the students who come through from university and I think may not be at the level they think they are sometimes, or they think they're producers. Yeah. I think once or twice I was like, when you, when they come kind of come in, they kind of come to our power.

[00:32:25] Jon Con: It's like, look, just back me up on anything that I. And like in terms of don't try jumping over toes or stuff. I

[00:32:31] Brino: think, yeah, I mean it's, it's really awkward when you know, the band don't, don't know this person and it's a bit, you know, there's been a bit of stress, a bit of tension going on for a little while, and then somebody new comes into the room and within five minutes of the guitar play and not getting a thing, someone asking, I'll pass us that guitar.

[00:32:47] Brino: I can show you how to do that. Or Why don't you do it like this? Or that sounds just like so-and-so, so least like anyone wants to hear, anyone wants to hear when they're going through hell you. yeah, it sounds exactly like this song. . [00:33:00] Yeah. Yeah, I know. You know, or, or Tain. Or Huffy when they haven't, when they're on, like, take 17 and like, you know, is he always like this?

[00:33:08] Brino: There's comments like that and it does happen, but yeah, I think you gotta assume that you know, you know nothing. You know, you've been okay. You've been to. To uni technically, yes, you are a producer and an engineer because you've finished your course, you're, you are qualified in it. You do produce tracks for yourself.

[00:33:24] Brino: You do engineer tracks for yourself, but you are, you are essentially, A bedroom producer, stroke engineer at that point, not a studio one, because you haven't had the experience of working in a studio. So you have to come into the studio just and just assume you know nothing, because if you come in with the preconceptions that you are just gonna start producing these records.

[00:33:43] Brino: With these, there's so much more that it takes to produce an engineer a record. And guide different people through the process. Mm-hmm. Usually we know nothing and just try and fit in and the technical knowledge comes in handy, but it's almost like a, you know, an added bonus that you, you call on if, if needed.

[00:33:58] Brino: I suppose there would

[00:33:59] Jon Con: be, I [00:34:00] suppose there would be a lot more assistance than engineers if everyone's on 60 kind a year in a training level. Yeah.

[00:34:05] Brino: Yeah. You know, but just might be a little bit higher. Yeah, but it's, you know, there, it's, it's not because anyone wants everyone to work for free. That's not, that's not the case.

[00:34:14] Brino: It's because there's no budgets on the sessions. We're all hammered on our budgets. You know, the studios are expensive. We work a lot of hours. Most of the time the budget for an assistant has to come out of our own money. You can't get the money from a labor for an assistant. If we could, we would, and it would go to the assistant.

[00:34:30] Brino: You can offer accommodation, food expenses, and maybe a little bit of money on top, so you have to be prepared. It's either you, it's either you spend years scratching around trying to get your foot through a door of a studio and never getting anywhere. Or trying to learn the business, but never working with people who actually are in the business.

[00:34:50] Brino: Or you go, right, you can sacrifice this. I can figure a way, a way I can support myself. This is my foot through the door. This is my way into the industry for what I do now [00:35:00] for the next year or 18 months of not earning any money. But at the end of it, I am a producer and engineer. I have experienced work in other studios.

[00:35:07] Brino: I've met lots of other producers and engineers, managers, artists. Record companies. So you know, you, that's the only way and the best way. And you've learned how, so how to be on a session so that when you start doing it, you know the situations that arise, you know how to deal with them, you know how to work with a band, you know, how to get the, the best out of them.

[00:35:29] Brino: And we've all had to do it. You know, I was. You know, 29 pounds a week, a hundred hour weeks, 29 pence an hour. But I might as well be nothing. I'd still have done it for nothing, but it was where else, where else was better to be in the nineties than Rockfield. Yeah. Where else was to learn other than with the producers that were coming through that studio at the time and the engineers.

[00:35:49] Brino: That's how I ever became with producing engineer. Just work in those hours, put the effort in. Being in a place that worked was full of great bands, great producers, great engineers, and Rockford had great assistance. So I could [00:36:00] kind of watch them as well. Just step, step your way up. Yeah. Yeah. And it gives you confidence.

[00:36:05] Brino: And then you, you, you, the experience and then. You're so confident. Then when you go to another studio and it's maybe a desk that you haven't used before and a room you don't know, you're kind of a bit more confident of working in another environment. And that's another great thing when you come work with people like us, is we don't just work in one studio, we work in several.

[00:36:22] Brino: So you get to learn about different studios and the quirks of different studios and how d different desks work and how to mic up a kit if it's in a dead room or a big live room. So all these things, I mean, it's, it's still the best route into the industry. All the ones that have come through us will tell you that Josh Tero, they're so talented, they'll go on to do something anyway, but maybe it just sped up the process a little bit or it helped them on their journey, you know, that little bit more.

[00:36:47] Brino: But the others who maybe had to work a bit harder at it, but still went on to become. Great engineers and producers maybe, you know, fast track them and got their foot through that door. And once that's on your cv, you can go into other studios [00:37:00] and you can get jobs at other studios. Once you've got places like Rockfield and the big producers that go there on your CV and working with us, working with big bands and things like that, that's on your cv.

[00:37:09] Brino: You're away. Yeah. I suppose that leads

[00:37:10] Jon Con: nicely to the fact that we have a production workshop coming up in Leaders Vale. I can find a website address now, , I think it's session record.com/leaders Veil, which is a three day session in April. And it is literally just like an opportunity, we'll limit it to eight people and it is just like an opportunity just to talk about recording production approaches and mixing approaches as well.

[00:37:31] Jon Con: And it's really just to focus, to help people who are maybe starting out and helping trainers towards approaching for record.

[00:37:38] Brino: Yeah, it's gonna be a great few days. Obviously we're gonna go through, well cover everything that the, the people who attending want to cover, but also our experiences. I'm talking more about your, your route into the industry as well, if that's what you're after.

[00:37:50] Brino: As well as, you know, covering everything, not just production, not just engineering. If you want to get a job in a studio and maybe we'll find new assistance that can come and work with us on these things as [00:38:00] well. And also experienced producers and engineers who maybe have only ever made records for themselves in their own home studios who want to come.

[00:38:07] Brino: Find out what it's like to with other engineers and other producers and other artists and get experience so they can branch out of their own studios and maybe go and work with other people. So yeah, it's open to kind of people of all levels people of all stages of their career. We'll be covering a lot in the three days.

[00:38:24] Brino: It's gonna be, yeah, gonna be good. Three days. Thanks again, Nick.

[00:38:27] Jon Con: I think I'm might covers everything. Thanks again

[00:38:29] Brino: watching Listen. Afternoon tea. Oh lush Spanish afternoon tea after an afternoon. So we saying Spanish afternoon? Well, it it's English. It's English afternoon tea in a Spanish school, so, Oh, nice.

[00:38:40] Brino: Set the kids score. So we're going for afternoon tea. They're doing an English afternoon tea, or British, I should say. Yeah. Okay. Well, enjoy,

[00:38:49] Jon Con: loves the family and I'll see you

[00:38:50] Brino: again. Okay, I will. Thanks John. Well, the next one.